Maximum Spear Support

Callan · **Joined:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:13 am **Posts:** 105

Given the following situation, how many attack dice does Evil get? A Minas Tirith Warrior surrounded (in base contact) with 3 Orcs (hand weapon and shield). EACH of the 3 Orcs is supported by 1 spear and each spear is supported by 1 pike. Does Evil get 3 (for 1st level Orc attack) plus 1 die for 1 spear support (2nd level) plus 1 die for pike support (3rd level) = 5 attack dice? Or is it 3 normal + 3 spear support + 3 pike support = 9? Thanks in advance for your answer.

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:23 pm

Evil would get 9 dice for the attack - 3 first line orcs - 3 spear and 3 pikes

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:36 pm

DMS is partially correct.

Just a further clarification. Every model in combat can only be supported by one spear. Every supporting spearman can only be supported by one pike. So you can never have two spearmen supporting the same model. Total Attacks = Attacks profile of model in combat + 1 for the spear + 1 for the pike.

HOWEVER, because the Warrior of Minas Tirith is surrounded, theres a chance that he may be Trapped. To trap a model, the model must be unable to back 1" away when it loses a fight. This can either be because they're back up against a terrain feature with at least two equal spaced models blocking its escape from the front, or because there are at least 3 models in base contact, equal distances apart - in a triangle around the trapped model.

A model becomes trapped after it loses the fight and cannot back away 1". When this happens, all strikes to wound are doubled. So if you had 9 total Attacks in the fight, you now have 18 Strikes to wound the model.

Ukfreddybear · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:31 pm

How is DMS partially correct? The question was how many attack dice are rolled to win the fight. He answered 9 which is completely correct. There isn't anything partial about it lol. If the question was how many dice are rolled to wound if evil win the fight, then King Ondoher's elaboration would come into play.
While we are on the trapped subject, it is also entirely possible that if good somehow won the fight, that the evil warriors in base contact could be trapped themselves, as they may be unable to back away one inch due to the position of the pikemen. A friendly model can only make way for another friendly model that has lost a combat. A model (the pikeman) cannot make way for another model (the spearman) making way, which could result in the evil warrior receiving double blows for being trapped.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:44 pm

ukfreddybear wrote:

How is DMS partially correct? The question was how many attack dice are rolled to win the fight. He answered 9 which is completely correct. There isn't anything partial about it lol.

Because the scenario Callan put forward had the Minas Tirith Warrior surrounded.

Callan wrote:

Given the following situation, how many attack dice does Evil get? A Minas Tirith Warrior surrounded (in base contact) with 3 Orcs (hand weapon and shield). EACH of the 3 Orcs is supported by 1 spear and each spear is supported by 1 pike.

DMS did not address that part. So he is [partially correct][not answering the whole question][missing something out]. Delete as appropriate.

Assuming Callan is a new player or otherwise unfamiliar with the rules, he might not be aware of the Trapped rule which is why I brought it up based on his scenario (3 Orcs surrounding a Minas Tirith Warrior implies it could be Trapped).

ResurrectedBones · **Joined:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:50 pm **Posts:** 66

King Ondoher wrote:

A model becomes trapped after it loses the fight and cannot back away 1". When this happens, all strikes to wound are doubled. So if you had 9 total Attacks in the fight, you now have 18 Strikes to wound the model.

Sorry, but isn't this incorrect? I may be completely off the mark on this, but I was under the impression that supporting spearmen never were factored into the amount of dice to roll for wounds. I thought they could only add a die to a fight roll, but not to the wound roll.

So in this situation, only the three front line orcs could roll to wound. Yes the fight would be 9 to 1, but the you'd only roll 3 (or 6 since trapped) to wound.

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:05 pm

The way I understood the trapped situation was if the orcs rolled the 9 attack dice (3 sword / 3 spear / 3 pike) and the WOMT roled 1 attack dice and the orcs roled six 6's and three 1's and the WOMT roled a 5 then the orcs would role there six dice which rolled 6's to wound the WOMT. say they needed a 6 to wound the WOMT and they roled two 6's because the WOMT is trapped these wounds would be doubled to 4 wounds. The result he's no longer trapped - he's dead!

Wow I've confused myself now lol

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:45 pm

@ResurrectedBones, DMS.
It's been a while since I've played and even longer since I used the Trapped rule so I'll check again. I hereby reserve the right to be 100% wrong. :rofl:

whafrog · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:46 pm

Whoa! No, it's way simpler than that. If the orcs win the fight (that is, any of them roll higher than the WoMT), they roll *all* their dice to wound (in this case 9). If the WoMT can't back away and is trapped, each attack gets double chances to wound, so you roll 18 dice to wound.

You definitely don't double the wounds you've already done...against warriors there would be no point and there would be no benefit or danger in trapping or being trapped.

Let's say the WoMT happened to win (which can happen: I rolled 11 dice once, 7 of which were 1s, none higher than 3). And lets say the orcs aren't surrounding him, but are clustered in a block in front of him. It's very likely that the middle orc will be trapped because his spear support can't move because his pike support is in the way. In this case the WoMT has two options: he only has 1 attack die, so he can pick either of the untrapped side orcs and roll 1 die to wound, or pick the trapped middle orc and roll 2 dice to wound.

Hmm, choices choices...

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:50 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Whafrog

I've only ever used the trapped rule once and I was the one who was trapped (lol against King Ondoher too

) I was too busy worrying about what he was doing to my poor uruks to pay full attention as to what was going on. lesson learnt!

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:57 pm

Page 29. Trapped.

Quote:

If a defeated model can't back away a full 1" it is trapped. Any strikes against a Trapped model are doubled, so a model with one attack gets 2, a model with 2 attacks gets 4.

Page 42-43. Spears.

Quote:

A Spear armed model is not considered part of the fight for all intents and purposes. The Friend supported by the spearman gets one extra attack. This represents the advantage of having support from a spearman, allowing the Friend to be more effective.

All the extra attacks provided by the spears and pikes are considered to belong to the model actually in combat. When that model strikes to wound an enemy model which is trapped, the Attacks it had are doubled. So an Orc with Spear and Pike support for a total of 3 attacks would double it to 6 strikes to wound.

Callan · **Joined:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:13 am **Posts:** 105

First of all, thank you Dead Marsh Spectre and everyone for all the replies above and thanks King Ondoher for bringing up another good point. I did state EACH orc is supported by 1 spear and 1 pike behind the spear. This is what I understand so far.

#1: Orcs get 3 dice normal attack + 3 dice for spear support + 3 dice for pike = 9 attack dice for the Who-Wins the Fight roll. Since support dice also contribute to the To-Wound roll, if the Orcs win the fight, they get 9 dice, but the Minas Tirith Warrior is surrounded and now trapped, he the orcs get double strikes -- 9x2=18 dice for the To-Wound roll against Good. Poor Minas Tirith Warrior!

#2: If by chance the Minas Tirith Warrior won the Who-Wins fight roll, he gets 1 die for To-Wound (assuming the Orcs are able to back up and make way for a friend), but may only choose to wound 1 of the 3 Orcs in base contact with him and not any of the 6 Orcs providing support as they are not in combat.

Did I understand the conversation correctly or am I still totally confused? Thanks everyone for your patience with me.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:22 am

The WoMT had one attack on his profile and no supporting attacks from spears/pikes. His opponent(s) is not Trapped, so he gets only the one die to wound if he wins.

whafrog · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:41 am

Callan wrote:

Did I understand the conversation correctly or am I still totally confused? Thanks everyone for your patience with me.

You got it.

Callan · **Joined:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:13 am **Posts:** 105

Thanks again everyone for your help.

ResurrectedBones · **Joined:** Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:50 pm **Posts:** 66

whafrog wrote:

Whoa! No, it's way simpler than that.

Thanks a bunch for clearing that up. Haha I definitely was making that too complicated.

Maximum Spear Support

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