All times are UTC


It is currently Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:24 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:46 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am
Posts: 218
Hi,
After playing W.O.T.R for just over a year my friend and I have now decided to play S.B.G
Im really enjoying the game and find the details in the rules much better than W.O.T.R but I need some advice on what units to play.
Having played W.O.T.R I have a pretty large collection of models so variety is not a problem. I have the mordor and fallen realms sourcebooks, and usually play games around 750pts.
The past couple of games Iv taken quite a beating, mordor orcs seem to get picked off by my opponents rangers and when I come up against troops such as fountain guards they get slaughtered.I think i just need some sample army lists to help get me into the game and maybe some tips on what wargear to use, 2hw or bows etc.
Any thoughts?

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:19 pm 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:11 am
Posts: 605
Location: Nottinghamshire
What models do you have available and what is your current list?

Some initial thoughts are, take some Black Guard Uruks as they should be able to deal with the Fountain Guard.

Other than that, try to outnumber with your Orcs and maybe take a banner to give them rerolls.

You might also think about a Mordor Troll, another good way to take down the Fountain Guard.

D5 models will be the best to have in your front rank against the Ranger bows.

A few 2 handed weapons might be useful to take down the heavy armour, especially in the hands of Mordor Uruks against normal Warriors of Minas Tirith. Try to get another Orc with spear support into the same combat.

Hope that helps.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:25 pm 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:05 pm
Posts: 3140
Location: Canada
Images: 4
Lots of things you can do. I wouldn't waste time on bows, unless you have some Orc trackers. You could include a drummer to get you into combat sooner, which makes the Rangers less effective (as I've learned to my dismay). Drummers can also give warg riders a huge threat zone. Including some Morannons as a front line will help shield your softer Orcs when you get to combat, plus their higher Strength is more lethal against Rangers.

Fountain Guard are tough, and if they're shielded the only reason to field Morannons against them is the higher D. A couple options are to simply swarm them, and/or ally in a Shade...if you stack the odds in favour of winning the fights eventually they'll crack. Some 2H Uruks in that situation could also be handy. Also, target the FC's chosen hero...once he's dead the bodyguard rule is no longer effective. If you have a wraith on the board and have eliminated their hero, they will run as fast as goblins once broken.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:43 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: CO, USA
You can limit the impact of bow fire by keeping Orcs with shields at your front and spear or 2H weapon models behind them while you close. But you will take hits and losses. That's what Orcs are for. :-) Consider some fast troops, such as Warg Riders, to speed ahead at the archers. They will either make it and engage or become the targets themselves. Either way your Orcs aren't being shot at any more. Still, Orcs are cheap enough where you should have a lot to absorb some losses while closing ( DON'T hang back...it will not go good for you).

In a fair fight, standard Orcs will take a beating in melee against all but the most basic troops. Don't fight fair. Your should have 2-3 Orcs on every model you attack. A great setup would be an Orc w/ 1H weapon and shield backed by a spear. With him is a second Orc with a 2H weapon. When you roll to Fight you will get 2 dice at normal F and one die at -1 (2H). Your opponent should only be rolling 1 die so you have a good chance to win. When you do, you have two strikes at regular Strength and one at +1 to increase the chance to wound. If facing an opponent Hero or greater troop then try to get more Orcs in there.

Also, really look for opportunities to call Heroic Combat. Orc Captains (and even some named Heroes) are relatively cheap and you should have a few scattered in your force for Stand Fast anyway. But if you can get 3 Orcs and your Captain in contact with a weak enemy troop (remember, support doesn't count for this part), call Heroic Combat. When you kill him jump all those Orcs forward to enforce other fights.

Also, keep in mind the rule of combined arms. For many forces this includes bows. For Orcs it's not as critical since they're pretty weak, but I suggest almost always to have at least some ranged fire. Instead though with Orcs you do good having a mix of stronger models in the ranks (Mordor Uruks or Morannons), Warg Riders and maybe even a Troll or two depending on points.

You say you also have Fallen Realms. I'm not sure what specifics, but Haradrim cavalry, infantry and bowmen are actually a great compliment with Orcs IMO. Perfectly themed and the Haradrim are nearly as cost effective as Orcs so you can still have very high numbers.

Also, just the simple play style of SBG is significantly different than WotR. You may in fact have a good list but just making tactical errors while playing as a result of your WotR experience. I know when I first started playing my Wood Elf army in WotR I was finding myself slaughtered in the first couple games simply because I kept forgetting that each side gets to strike blows in melee. This is NOT the case in SBG. So perhaps you are taking actions that you expect to have a certain result, or at least don't expect to, and it's biting you?

In the event it is the list, give us an idea of what type of army you are facing, as well as a few specifics of what you already own and we can offer up some better details.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:43 am 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 6:49 am
Posts: 387
Location: netherlands
Here is my 700 pt army that has worked VERY well for me:

warband 1
-dark marshal on horse

-black guard
-6 orcs spear and shield

warband 2
-Gorbag shield

-6 morranon orcs shield
-6 orcs s&s

warband 3
-drummer

-6 morranon orcs shld
-6 orcs s&s

warband 4
-shade

-6 orcs shield
-6 orcs spear and shield

700 pts, 52 units, 5 might no bows

this army has worked almost every time in the past as it has somthing for every scenario
And Morannon orcs with drum, spearsuppport, shad bonus and banner bonus will rearly lose afight.

_________________
"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:37 pm 
Ringwraith
Ringwraith
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:05 pm
Posts: 3140
Location: Canada
Images: 4
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about :) if you went up to 1000 what would add? I'm thinking a troll chief and more orcs, maybe rounded out with a shaman?
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:07 pm 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:30 am
Posts: 2793
Location: In the Tardis Bar
Images: 1
how many black guard in that list? To go up to a 1000pts I would upgrade the wraith to fellbeast and chuck in a troll cheif. Those things are amazing. And more orcs of course.

_________________
12th GBHL 2013.
13th GBHL 2014
9th GBHL 2015



Mid Sussex Wargamers
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:26 am 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 6:49 am
Posts: 387
Location: netherlands
SouthernDunedain wrote:
how many black guard in that list? To go up to a 1000pts I would upgrade the wraith to fellbeast and chuck in a troll cheif. Those things are amazing. And more orcs of course.

6 black guards, another variation of the same army (700) is to drop the BG's and the DM"s horse and put him on a fellbeast.

_________________
"make me lunch... worthy of Mordor"
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:14 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:02 am
Posts: 218
Hi, some good thoughts guys. I defo think that playing W.O.T.R is leading me to make a few errors or to forget to use the rules to my advantage.
Anyway, here is a list of my models, any sugestions would be great.

9 wraiths on foot
Witchking on fell beast
Gothmog foot and mounted
Gorbag
Grishnak
Lurtz
Saruman
Uruk Hai Captain
Orc Drummer
Orc banner
Orc taskmaster
Orc captain
2 Morannon Captains
Mumak + crew
Troll Chefitain
2 mordor trolls
6 warg riders
12 Morgul knights
24 morannon orcs
32 uruk hai scouts
and about 70 mordor orcs
My opponent is buying plenty of fountain guards so I expect to face them in my next few games.

_________________
Veni Vidi Vici
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:15 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:18 pm
Posts: 224
Images: 1
:lol:
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: S.B.G help
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:38 pm 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: CO, USA
Try a list without too many points in the expensive models. Your Knights and Morannon are tough core troops and Orcs are cheap enough to really fill ranks both for arrow walls (if needed) or to support and help surround your enemy models. Give most of them Spear and have them work with the Morannon Orcs.

Gothmog mounted with your Knights would give you a very powerful hitting force. A Cavalry hit is good to begin with, but Morgul Knights take it up a level. Combine that with Gothmog. Get him and a couple Knights on one foe, call Heroic Combat and leapfrog to other targets. Then next turn Heroic Move to get the heck out of there if you don't win Priority again or you could be hurting.

If you need to conserve points a bit an unnamed Nazgul with adjusted to as much Will as you can afford will help you a lot for Transfixing enemy Heroes. Also, Compelling generic troops (that can't resist) our of formation or into a juicy position for an Heroic Combat leapfrog is very nice. If you're getting close to the points of a named one then you may as well go for the extra candy.

A Mordor Troll or the Troll Chief (personal fav) would each help boost your hitting power but only if you have enough base troops. If he's loading up on Fountain Guard or such then you can put numeric superiority to work but if you go with too many high-priced models you can find yourself outclassed.

When you aren't sure you can win a Fight roll, don't forget to Shield so that model can live to fight another turn. Keep your Cav moving but remember they are only going to be hitting every other turn in most cases. Their mobility can help force your opponent to spread, get behind a strong front line, out or allow you to exploit an opening when you see it. Using the generic Captains or named Heroes to call Heroic Combat or Heroic Moves is also very powerful. Spending Might to adjust die rolls is something I personally consider a last-resort use. Manipulating the battlefield is far more effective in nearly all situations.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: