Piercing Striking with a Two handed Axe

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

Yeah basically what the title says could I give my Abrakhan Merchant Guard two handed axes and have them piecing strike and Chop! or is being two handed already in effect a special strike

Grungehog · **Posted:** Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:59 pm

The bonuses stack

JamesR · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:47 am

You can but that's a whole new level of cheese

J.R. · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:07 am

you can.. ? but I would not accept it, they come with swords, so they keep swords. It is not like they where underpowered

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:10 am

I do not if its the right topic to ask or make a new one BUT, like serpent guard for example, if they feint (i dont even know if they have swords but lets say they have) does the feint bonus stack with poisoned weapons? and if it does, this counts for betrayer rule aswell? like they reroll 1s-2s-3s?
Myself i pretty much doupt this but some clarity would be nice.

Dr Grant · **Joined:** Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:50 pm **Posts:** 1339

You can give them two-handed axes and the bonuses would stack but, as JamesR has pointed out, that's a whole new layer of cheese and bending the rules to your advantage.

The weapon rules were intended to make all the models on the table work slightly differently, not as a reason to give all your models axes and make them all the same!

Anytime, you swap the weapon a model has for a different sort you are abusing the rules. IMO, any particular troop type should only be able to special strike with a weapon that was sculpted into the original miniature.

It's a shame that so many people have converted axes onto Woses, Reavers, elves etc. that the default position is now to attempt to put an axe on every model :roll:

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:52 am

I absolutely agree with Dr Grand, abusing the rules is ruining a theme based game and its fun. Every army has its base weapons , some conversions are acceptable like giving easterlings halberts as it is in their army arsenal but elves with axes? getting tired of seeing thme

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:06 am

<cough>power creep <cough>

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:07 am

halauas wrote:

I absolutely agree with Dr Grand, abusing the rules is ruining a theme based game and its fun. Every army has its base weapons , some conversions are acceptable like giving easterlings halberts as it is in their army arsenal but elves with axes? getting tired of seeing thme

In unfinished tales, tolkein's elves use axes. The axe isnt reserved for dwarves only. I understand what point is being made, but that is to be expected when gw expands the rules to their game.

ElfGeneral · **Joined:** Fri May 11, 2012 6:04 pm **Posts:** 336

Whoa! I didn't say I was going to do it I'm just thinking of starting a Harad list and have been musing over my possible choices for units and equipment and that combo seemed a little extreme I was more wondering about a rules clarification because my elves two handed weapon is an elf blade which plays slightly different.

If I were to ever use it it would only be in my most unabashedly cheesy list that would be made just because it was cheesy in a sort of beat it if you can set up

SouthernDunedain · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:00 pm

halauas wrote:

I do not if its the right topic to ask or make a new one BUT, like serpent guard for example, if they feint (i dont even know if they have swords but lets say they have) does the feint bonus stack with poisoned weapons? and if it does, this counts for betrayer rule aswell? like they reroll 1s-2s-3s?
Myself i pretty much doupt this but some clarity would be nice.

Hell no!

just ones and twos (if in range of the betrayer)

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:51 pm

Quote:

Hell no!

just ones and twos (if in range of the betrayer)

Yes i guessed so

just asking because serpent guards dont wear any weapon (other than spear) as equipment, so swords are useless to them, no that they need them

Smeagol · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:56 pm

jdizzy001 wrote:

In unfinished tales, tolkein's elves use axes. The axe isnt reserved for dwarves only. I understand what point is being made, but that is to be expected when gw expands the rules to their game.

Until I see someone make some axes that fit with the design of these elves, I will never accept them. Putting some generic axe on an elf is theme breaking and blatant power gaming to me as it does not have an elegant design like their blades do.

jd_statattack · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Interestingly though, the serpent riders kit did come with swords, although as has been said, it would be pointless feinting anyway since they have poison.

JamesR · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:17 pm

It's ultimately a moot point if elves had axes in Tolkien's writings, the game does not incorporate everything from those writings into the game, so it is unthematic, unsporting, rules abuse, cheesey, power gaming, evil, broken, abuse, morally wrong, emotionally unstable, a travesty, and ultimately more despicable than even Jar Jar Binks from Star Wars himself.

AND...
Those are it's good points

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:28 pm

JamesR wrote:

It's ultimately a moot point if elves had axes in Tolkien's writings, the game does not incorporate everything from those writings into the game,

I only brought it up to avoid the inevitable "elves never used axes" argument.

JamesR wrote:

...it is unthematic, unsporting, rules abuse, cheesey, power gaming, evil, broken, abuse, morally wrong, emotionally unstable, a travesty, and ultimately more despicable than even Jar Jar Binks from Star Wars himself.

I agree with your statement. Except on the point of sportsmanship. Since the early days of LOTR SBG, GW has made a point to emphasize WYSIWYG, so, if a player wants to spend their time crafting thematic (or non-thematic) elf axes and slap one on every single elf in their army, then so be it. It isn't unsportsman-like. After they beat you in a game, if they were to gloat about their powerful elf axes *then* it would be unsportsman-like. IMHO. I don't see how following the rules of the game is unsportsman-like.

Personally, this is why I preferred their original approach of, a hand weapon is a hand weapon.

PS- Yes, Jar Jar (or Bottle Bottle as I like to call him) was a horrid idea, border-lining on racist.

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:44 pm

halauas wrote:

I absolutely agree with Dr Grand, abusing the rules is ruining a theme based game and its fun. Every army has its base weapons , some conversions are acceptable like giving easterlings halberts as it is in their army arsenal but elves with axes? getting tired of seeing thme

Heh. I think the same about Good vs Good and Evil vs Evil match ups.

With regards to axes, I'd only agree with it if my opponent was doing it for theme reasons e.g. converting High Elves to have axes to represent that race of Elves from the First Age who were famous for their use of the weapons (I forget which).

The only weapon conversions I've ever done for LOTR was to replace my Minas Tirith Warriors' swords with wire spears to make converted Warriors of Arnor.

Except for one Mordor Orc to whom I gave a 1 hand axe & shield as his 2 hand axe broke.

halauas · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 pm

Personally i would not have problem converting weapons as long as they belong to each army arsenal.

For example orcs can use all kinds of weapons, maces,axes,picks,swords,flails ect ect
dwarfs axes,maces,swords
gondor swords and occasionally maces
rohan axes and swords
ect ect

Grungehog · **Posted:** Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:22 pm

I'm giving the Abrakaan guards I am sculpting various weaponry. It is mainly beacuse I never liked the fatmen design.

rumtap · **Posted:** Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:26 am

I've said it before, I'll say it again. The problem is the special strike rules. Nobody ever complained about axes on elves before they came in.

I understand the intent was to create a bit more diversity and interest but the method misses the mark. To a degree a level of equality has been removed from the game. You don't hear of anyone adding maces or clubs to elves. Points wise an axe and club is a hand weapon of the same value yet in play they are not valued the same!

Sorry for my slightly off topic rant. I pray to the admin gods for forgiveness.

Piercing Striking with a Two handed Axe

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