Nice profile, and I really appreciate the way you broke down the points calculation. I think F6 is too high, it allows three of them to tie a cave troll, have even wounds, but twice the attacks (never mind being backed up with spears). Plus with a potential of D7, the cave troll suddenly needs a 5+ to wound, while with S4, they do as well. Lethal.

<side note:> We could refactor the cave troll too, but...I had been thinking it would be helpful in this project to work within some of the existing benchmarks. Men retain their "average" profile (while each race might get distinctive special rules), and our profiles revolve around that. Cave Troll is another benchmark that seems useful because we can consider how easily our warrior profiles would be able to take one down.

My original profile had a "Light of the Valar" equivalent, but only saves on a 6 (like Fury). This seemed fairly useless given the numbers, but I think 4+ may be too much.

I understand your point about the effect Terror has on the game, but I'm starting to think maybe Noldor provide the same kind of role as Sentinels/Berzerkers/Sons of Eorl. You wouldn't take many of them in an army, most of the rest of the elves would be Sindar. Thoughts?

I think Noldor as Elven elites makes the most sense rather than fielding entire armies of them.

Also, I never found the 'Terror' rule to be annoying to play against. If you choose to field an army with low Courage you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Noldor all, IMHO

I must say I really like your profile, assuming we agree that Noldor are going to be treated as rare elites. Is it worth it to raise the shoot value to differentiate them from other (more shooty) elves?

F...S..D..A..W..C - Pts
5/3+ 4 3 2 1 5 - 16 points

Special Rules:
Lineage of the Firstborn
Resistant to Magic

EDIT: shoot to 3+, increase points to 16

I like the S4, regardless of whether that reflects a native strength of body or superior efficiency. I think your profile was too expensive, however. Compare to a baseline berzerker which is 15 points (and already has a 2H weapon), add +1 for F5 and -3 for D3 and you have a starting point of 13 points. Add +1 for Terror, +1 for Resistant to Magic, and you're back to 15 points. For having a shoot option, a horse option, and the ability to get to D7, I could see +1 point for a total of 16...thoughts?

EDIT: points to 16

Not sure the elf blade should be 2 points, so here's a revised list:
Wargear:
0 point...Handweapon
1 point...Spear, Armour, Shield, Elven Blade
2 point...Heavy Armour, Elven Bow
3 point...Mithril Armour
5 point...Elven Cloak (a model with an Elven Cloak may not also be equipped with armour, heavy armour, or shield)
6 point... Elven Horse

I think we should skip giving them a Fate rule, and maybe give that instead to a hero (similar to Malbeth's Foresight).

One thing I'm conflicted about is whether or not to give them a "Woodland Creature" or Woodcraft rule. The other races have this, and the only reason removed it was to save points...but I keep thinking of Gildor.

Anyway, I'm guessing this is more what people were looking for in a Noldor...if there's agreement I'll update the first post.

As far as shoot value of 3+ or 4+ I'm pretty indifferent. For game balancing purposes it would be useful to give the Noldor 4+ but to match Tolkien's Middle Earth it should be 3+. With the Sylvan's extra archery special rules it should give them a niche within Elven armies. Seeing as we have no defined Sindar profile as of yet, maybe they could get the identical or similar rule(s) as the Sylvan.

All of those heroes were actually Half-Elven...they should be primarily Noldor, but only Elrond chose to be counted among the Elves. Earendil would have chosen to be Dunedain but for the love of Elwing and us desribed as the "first mortal" to set foot on the island of Valinor

Okay...is it worth an extra point? I think so.



There is a Sindar thread.



They were Half-Elven, but they got to choose which race to be accounted under. I would think for game purposes this decision would decide which racial profile we could use. Elrond's kids are a bit trickier I guess, because their mother was the daughter of Celeborn (Sindar) and Galadriel (Noldor).

It isn't so much the terror that would make the army boring... it is the combination of terror, high fighting skill, capability to get 7 defence, 2 attacks (which can be supported)... so only half of your men can charge, only to loose the fight and get killed, hence boring. If they are only used as elites this isn't such a problem as you can always kill your way around them first.

Edit: I guess my point here is that you should still be careful to make sure the game will be fun.

I think if you look in the Goblin thread you'll see some fun horde ideas. All the nasties have yet to be fleshed out. The main thrust of this is to allow quality to hold its own against quantity, but quantity should still be fun to play, as you said.

I suggest we give the Noldor the 'Woodland Creature' special rule. Although they really don't need to be made any better, all Elven profiles should have this rule IMO

Is it worth another point? That brings us to 17 for a naked Noldor.

Shaman makes them immune to terror, Shades give a -1 to the elves to win the fight = expensive dead elves. Terror, high A&F isn't any protection from missile fire either.
Elf very-high cost means very few models, which means they will have a very difficult time at winning scenarios, if they are to good and to expensive, you won't be able to field a decent army in the first place.

Shade=100pts
Shaman of any Race= at least 35pts
Noldor= 16-25 points

I think we've agreed they're to be Elite units within a Sindar army, not an army unto themselves. As I wrote above, you could have 5 or 6 Noldor for the same price as a Shade and Shaman. If they make your opponent field Shades and Shamans, that's better than facing a named wraith they could have chosen for a few less points.

There should be a counter to them, and you managed to find a good one, but that doesn't mean they can't be effective.