Greetings, all.

Couple quick questions on Reinforcements in WotR. This isn't something that has happened often in our games (usually end up playing the scenarios with all forces starting on the table) so I'm not personally very familiar, and I don't have access to my rule book right now. Basically though, I'm wanting to clarify a couple things on deployment and reinforcements.

1. I know that a Battlehost is considered a single unit for deployment purposes. This is actually very cool. So if you have a Battlehost and two extra Formations and an Epic Hero, and you have to deploy half of your force as Reinforcements, you could put the Battlehost and one Formation on the table and the EH and other extra Formation off, right?

2. Epic Heroes cannot deploy with a BH if they are not a part of it. In the above example though if you can bring half your force on the table at the beginning could that be (a) deploy your Battlehost and (b) place your extra Epic Hero into a Formation that was part of the Battlehost. This is how Epic Heroes are normally treated and seems to still be allowed. What isn't allowed is to actually deploy the EH as part of the BH (if you can only bring one "formation" onto the table it can't be your BH + outside EH).

3. If you are putting a Formation in reserves that has the Ambush special rule, when you roll for reserves if it's allowed to come on can you still keep it hidden until a turn you are ready to reveal? I'm 90% sure this should be a yes, but again, want to be sure. We don't use Ambush too much yet.

Anyway, hope these are clear questions and as always…

advTHANKSance!

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I dont have the Battelehost book in front of me but I recall it working as you described.

This is also how I understand it.

This one is tricky.
But I think of it this way. Reinforcements is a general rule that affects all units but ambusher is a specific rule that affects specific units and is also a specific type of deployement. Since logic dictates that specific overrides the general, I would interpret it as ambushers come out only when you wish, (but you still need to roll a 3+ in the case of Maelstrom of Battle deployment)

first two points, this is how I interpret them too.

third point, you beat me to it , I just faced this situation today too. main point is that ambusher had to be assigned to a defensible terrain during deployment by the Ambushers special rule wording. in reinforcement ambusher is deployed when the roll is successful for it to enter the field to be normally hidden in this place from this point on till uncovered.

We actually played it this way with a slight twist. the player with the ambusher has to secretly assign it to a defensible terrain in the initial deployment. then only when he rolls enough to deploy it, it's now considered to be really hiding in this defensible terrain. I guess somehow we felt it's more fair this way than to allow assigning it depending on how the game goes. but is it the right way? not sure...

oh, and at first we thought to enforce ambushers deployment in the initial deployment. after all they are ambushing so they should have taken place before enemy come near enough to see them. but then we decided to play it as mentioned above.

_________________
OFTENTIME,THE SHADOWS SERVE NOT ONLY TO CONCEAL THOSE WHO WISH TO DO EVIL,BUT ALSO PROTECT THOSE WHO SEEK TO DO GOOD

I agree with this personally. You're supposed to assign the ambusher in defesinble terrain feature during deployment, but if there is no deployment at the beginning of the game then I think it should still be assigned at the beginning of the game.

The ambusher rule seems to imply that there is a designation at the beginning of the game since deployment normally happens at that time.

Is it right? I am not sure either but it would make a good house rule to change the part on the second paragraph of the ambusher rule from "during deployment" to "at the beginning of the game"

Thanks, all.

The "ambushers as reinforcements" was really the most tricky part of the situation for me and I appreciate the ideas and real-world experience. The wording does leave some room for interpretation (ambiguity in a GW rule set…say it isn't so!). As noted, if they are reinforcing then the ambusher's aren't "deployed" at the beginning. Looking at the book last night, reinforcements are specifically "deployed" when they are rolled successfully and not before. But in the case of an ambusher this just doesn't seem appropriate that you are allowed to pick your Terrain a couple turns into the game.

I think the spirit and wording of the rules both allow for what you describe above: Assign the terrain at the beginning of the game, during initial deployment, for each ambusher regardless of them being reinforcements or not. Roll for the ambushers that are reinforcing as normal reinforcements, but follow all other ambush rules (can't reveal until after turn 2, for example).

One thing I forgot to check was if rolling for reinforcements happens at the beginning or end of your Move phase. Revealing ambushers happens at the beginning, so if rolling for reinforcements happens at the end then it would force an extra turn as well. I think this is a fine limitation tbh considering that combining ambushers (which you don't intend on revealing for a couple turns anyway) with reinforcements (which are units you can't use right away) lets you lessen the impact of reinforcements on the strength of your force.

I know anyone with a strong Ambush contingent would probably want to interpret the rules to say that they don't have to assign the Ambusher's to a specific terrain feature until they are successfully rolled for, but I think that's another situation of trying to manipulate a gray area to maximum advantage. I happen to have a "strong Ambush contingent" in a couple of my WotR army and, though I would love that for myself, I don't think it's a fair way to play and am glad to see others feel the same. Now if GW came out with an official ruling to the contrary I would be sure to leverage it.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

just noticed something, Bhurdur's Warband (p.75 Battlehosts) are ambushers. their special rule states that if they arrive as reinforcement they can reroll the dice when determining when and where they arrive.

well I guess the "where" here may means which border to arrive at, while no mentioning of deploying in defensible terrain in such case. this could mean that if you choose to put them as reinforcement you forfeit deploying them as ambushers at the beginning of the game. makes some sense...

but this could also mean if you optionally choose not to ambush, not likely though I guess...

_________________
OFTENTIME,THE SHADOWS SERVE NOT ONLY TO CONCEAL THOSE WHO WISH TO DO EVIL,BUT ALSO PROTECT THOSE WHO SEEK TO DO GOOD

Good point. Sometimes however the only viable defensive terrain is no where close to where you would want to deploy and so you just don't Ambush. Also, much of our defensible terrain is of a size we agree support two or three Companies. We only have a couple 4-Company terrain pieces. So if you have a 4-Company Formation with Ambush rules you may have no choice but to bring them on as a normal deployment/reinforcement.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com