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 Post subject: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:46 am 
Craftsman
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Taking part in a tourney (1st timer) and looking for advice.

My Dwarven forces consists of::
175 Gimili
200 5c of Shield
15 w/Hornblower
80 2c of 2hd
50 w/Cpt
80 2c of Rangers
60 1c of Ballista
125 Ent

Total: 785pts. Gimili in the 5c Shields, Cpt w/the 2hd, Rangers/Ballista for distant fire support, and the Ent for mobile support.

The Black Numenors are going to have foot and cavalry and have the Dark Marshal (+/- on a Fell Beast).

The only option I can figure out to try would be to include Gandalf the Grey (dropping the Ent and take Balin instead of Gimli) OR take Balin and include x1 ballista (total of 2) and x1 more Shield company (total of 6c and dropping the hornblower as well) OR Radagast and x1 Shield company (taking Balin instead of Gimili and dropping the Ent).

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:56 pm 
Loremaster
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Well, the shield formation is a good place to start. I would look to expand the dwarves with 2H weapons so drop the ent it's unthematic and won't help that much IMO. Gandalf may work and I like the idea though he's very pricey for some pockets and using expensive dwarves, I don't think he will pay off TBH. I would also get some Khazad Guard instead of the 2H guys if you have them. Maybe something like this?

Gimli-175 points
5c of dwarf warriors, shields, captain-250 points
3c of Khazad guard-150 points (Gimli here)
2c of rangers with bows-80 points
2c of rangers with bows-80 points
Ballista-60 points

Total: 795 points

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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:17 pm 
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First comment is: Drop that ruddy horblower! It's of no use and no help.

Second thought is that the 2-handers are slightly too small, switch a shield company into a 2-hander company (personally, I would have it as three formations as dwarfs can take the hits - if you go with two formations go for a 3c and a 4c to keep it balanced. Might be worth considering having the 2-handers as the 4c though because they're easier to kill and have less attacks).

Third: I agree that the Ent is a little... lathargic in this list. You would need at least two to have them be useful (in any army), otherwise it dies quickly with no gain. You could always drop it and replace it with stuff (first thoughts regarding that are to drop the captain [overpirced, IMO, without enough gain to be worth it when an Epic hero will do better] and replace with a King's Champion if you want a monster).

Fourth: Always try to use up spare points. You have 15 spare - if you had 15 spare, I'd say take a hornblower, but you already have one (which I said to drop) - instead, take a third company of rangers (instead of the hornblower and this assumes you drop the ent: gotta keep the % in check).

So, my comments that try to change the list as little as possible, turn it into the following:

Gimli
4c of Warriors (Shields or 2Hs, your choice, but I'd suggest 2Hs here and shields in the 3c)
3c of Warriors (2Hs or Shields - preferably shields)
3c of Rangers
King's Champion
Dwarf Ballista
800pts on the dot.

It keeps the same basic premise of the list, makes it more thematic, strengthens the units and Gimli can always be the counter to the -1F of the 2-handers if need be and with his and the KC's Inspiring Hero rules, only the Rangers don't benefit from increased Courage anyway.


Damnit, just realised that your rangers are likely dwarf rangers: if so, give them bows or don't bother with them - most others can do their job better.

Gimli
4c of Warriors (Shields or 2Hs, your choice, but I'd suggest 2Hs here and shields in the 3c)
3c of Warriors (2Hs or Shields - preferably shields)
King's Champion
Dwarf Ballista
700pts and thusly some room to spare. Another company of Warriors, a Banner Bearer and a Shieldbearer can fill that up or a company of warriors and another ballista or 2 companies of warriors (or rangers with bows) and a hornblower (if desperate for it ;) ), leaving you 5 points spare.
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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:32 am 
Craftsman
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Thanks for the advise. I tried Spuds suggestion, but dropped a ranger formation and took another ballista. My original opponent (Black Nums) was a no-show, so fought against a Grey Company w/Dol Amroth Knights w/2 formations of 2-3c of Rangers of Arnor. He had Aragorn w/the Knights... After the 1st movement w/i the 1st turn he had his knights in position to charge my formation of Shields w/Gimili. My 2 ballista's had line of sight, and range on his Knights (5c.), :twisted: the rolls...both 5's, add the +1 and they became 6's. d6+4 hits, the rolls? yeah...both 6's, so 10 hits from each ballista at str8 on d7 (need 4+). The following rolls :o ...ALL 4+, did 20 wounds on his 5c of Knights of Amroth. :shock: Game. (we kinda of just looked at each other...blinked...and started to redeploy for another game)....

Game 2, same opponent/same force. This time he split his knights and sent one formation (backed by the rangers of Arnor) at my ballista's. ...1 ballista took out 1c of knights(out of 2) and the other whittled down the Arnor's. Threw the KG at the remaining Knights/Arnor's and secured the right flank. Shield and Gimili pinned down the Grey's in a building, after beating down the remaining formation of Knights through archers/ballista/cc/duel. The following shooting phase saw the ballista's raining death again. With the bonus for hitting companies w/i buildings, I all but took out the Grey's in 1 shooting phase. :oops: Game.

Game 3. Dropped both ballista's and took back the 2nd Rangers and more Shields. This game was a tad more balanced, longer and more enjoyable. Though losing the KG was embarrassing, it was still a lot of fun. :puppy:

Those ballista's are crazy insane!! yes...w/the good fortune of rolls...but still...daaaaang. :lol:

**and I kinda like having at least 1 hornblower in at least 1 formation. I find that having that 1"(potentially 2" from At the Double) is a boon for closing w/archers or even getting in position for flank/counter-charging. Though again, its all down to personal taste. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:39 am 
Loremaster
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Well, it seems you don't need my tactical advice :D If you still has 15pts floating about, you may as well spend it on another hornblower (then you have two with the extra inch or two :P ).

Awesome luck in the first game and it seems your opponent was good-spirited about it, which is a plus! Also good of you to play a third game where you switched the ballistae and it came out more balanced: very good sportsmanship *thumbs up to you, sir!*
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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:58 pm 
Craftsman
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wow im so gettin a ballista instead of ranger of erid luin company. its deverstating :shock: wow :shock: wow :shock: they wont know wats hit them :lol: :pippin:
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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:31 pm 
Craftsman
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I have to admit, for a long time I had only 1 ballista and it was so-so. Had some good results with the 1, though mostly it just soften up the opposing formation. So I thought adding another 1 would make them really effective. Since adding the 2nd one I've really had some amazing results, its not the 1st time I've wiped out a formation with them, it is the 1st time I've wiped out such a formidable one.

Though I can see taking more than 2 can be a real nuisance and take the fun out of playing. Even in 1k+ games; cause after all its all about the mass troops hacking and slashing. :Smackdown:

Now I"m considering getting and fielding between 4-6 hobbit archer companies to be my missile troops and freeing up the points to get more KG or Shields.

** oh, and I can ALWAYS use more tactical advise **

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 Post subject: Re: HELP: 800pt WotR Dwarf vs Black Numenors
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:53 pm 
Craftsman
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great minds think alike :D well done for taking the road of the shire. in wotr you can only use them as alies but for 15pts a company of archers and 10pts a company of militia and 50pts for a hero they bolster numbers and bring in valuable shooting numbers. a ballista acompanied by the hobbit archers will take down a good number of the foe before they get ther. then with a line of millitia to take the arrows and "heroic charges" from their horses arnet so heroic when they realise its taken them about 3 turns to kill about 40pts meanwhile your skilled dwarfs can either counter charge after the hobbits are dead (yes i know even i the guy obsessed with hobbits does sacrifice them for the greater cause) or do a sneaky attack on their flanks. also if youve got the points in a 1000+ game (maybe 800 but i wouldent advice it) try using them as specialists against trolls with trollbane or give them a bit of a bite against the enemy with orcsbane :twisted: when they find some hobbits are beating them theyll be kickin themselves
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