Hello all.
I like the models for The Black Guard, and on-paper, they're pretty awesome: Great strength, good defence, yowzer, how many points? But a funky concept, and cool models ((though again, 'spensive) But are the effective in the game (WotR)? I'd be tempted to get a few of the models, and convert the rest from Mordor Uruks I have laying around, but do they fit into a competitive army? They points heavy, even if they do look like they'd kick butt. In a 1500 or 2000 point force, is it worth having 'em as a mainstay for your force, or would it be advisable to have many a formation of them to act as an 'anchor' for a more varied force? 'Cos again, they look pretty effective, but I could see 'em easily gettng out numbered (Of course some common formations would perhaps protect the flanks).

If you've fielded 'em, how did you use, 'em, and how effective have you found them to be?

first things first, say in the title if its wotr or sbg

they are not worth it. wotr is quite imbalanced as such morranon orcs are by FARRRR better. they are half the cost, and the only downside is less str. which isnt a problem, since their half the points you can get twice as many!

done

In wotr they are not worth it. They are not bad but their are mor ebetter options in the mordor list.

In sbg they are freaking awesome!

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

In wotr they are not worth it. They are not bad but their are mor ebetter options in the mordor list.

In sbg they are freaking awesome!

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

Well, that settles that then! They are indeed 'spensive, in terms of points and £. I may be tempted to get some of the models to paint, but meh, I'm not entirely enthused about them in gaming terms, I was just owndering how they worked 'in the field' as opposed to on the page. Thanks guys!

IMO, in wotr, they are very good counter-heavy-infantry tearing apart D7 3 times better than morranon orcs. I might get a 3 company formation especially if fighting space is limited.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

I agree. They are totally worth it in WOTR.

They are strength 5, Berserk, and come in a list that has access to 1. Plentiful cheap heavy inf to bulk out the line while they hit hard 2. Access to shatter shields and dark fury 3. Access to all the goodness of the Darkness list. They can easily be made to hit very hard indeed.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Sorry but your arguments are not very good Xelee, with magic like shatter shields every formation can hit very hard not only Black guard. but if you look to points and other formations in the list black guards are just too much points for what they do. And wounding on 5's is better but the only formation with def 7 that you see much are morannons and for every black guard company you can get 2 morannon orc companies. In wotr everything depends on large formations not on some strength 5 troops.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

My arguments are not very good? You do realise that if they are fighting other heavy infantry then they will likely be killing at least 3:1 even before they get magical assistance? That is the starting point, you can make this better.

Now I am all for cost-effective heavy inf+epic amies but that doesn't mean I don't recognise a good way of leveraging other hero abilities through a very high base lethality, when I see it. So I definitely think this is a useful unit, not least because it is still also high-defense. It is one of a number of good choices in that list.

And everything in this game most certainly does not depend on large formations.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Maybe the staement was a little harsh but this do I mean:



Yeah but this is with every formation in this army so this doesn't make black guard worth it this is a argument for all mordor's formations.



I don't know if you every played at wotr tournaments and had a look at the gt winning armies but everything in that lists are bases on large formation not a few companies of harder hitters.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

Well the 5 wraith Mordor Royal Air Force Battlehost with a company of orcs would be an exception to the horde army argument. Came in second I believe at 2010 Wotr tournament, but generally you are right.

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

they are twice as much as morranons, and their only advantage is higher str, but a nazgul can give you that anyway... (and if morranons are half the points you can get more nazgul...)

Well Hero of Gondor, I will have to defer to your superior WOTR tourney performance! Since in a month and a bit I will (hopefully, we *did* just suffer a major earthquake) be running the only WOTR tourney so far, in this out-of-the-way country ...

However, you are kind of missing the point. Just because every formation can recieve the same boosts, it does not make every formation the same. You do seem kind of stuck on that lol To do well in this game, you need both durable things and things that can reasonably expect to wipe out target units in short order. Since some of your best Mordor lethality boosters can only be in one place at a time, this unit is not a bad way to do that. About the only things I don't like about it are that SFC is a bit harsh, and it is overall inefficient vs def 3, so you can manage the virtual instant kills via Heroic fight and Epic rampage.

Just because some list types are simpler to explain how to play, and get recommended to beginners, it does not make them the only way to play.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

No, that is not what I am saying. But the question in this topic is if black guard are worth it in a mordor armylist. And I say no because there are much better options in the mordor armylist. If he is doing only friendly games where n one uses only heroe's and large formation oke but I'm giving advice for tournament play. And in the tournament scene black guard are not worth it because morannon orcs are much better option and they are core so you can always use them.

This just my opinion.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."

Well since "just my opinion" is a good step back from "your arguments are not very good", I can definitely accept you have you own take on things

That said, the presumption for any list advice is that it is for vs players who know what they are doing, and have taken effective lists. That is not just a tournament thing.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

yeah, sorry for that that was not very nice. I had a hasrsh day that day.

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"There are only 4 things you need in life: Lasagna, beer, a girlfriend and of course a gondor army."