Basically I'm thinking about buying a dragon for both SBG and WOTR as it seems like a cheap way to get a lot of points, I like the models at it seems like a model I can put in lots of armies really easily (also with the Hobbit coming out I can use him as Smaug regardless of whether they bring out a specific Smaug model or not). I am planning on starting an Easterlings army + Dragon and then going for a matching colour scheme and back story

so my questions are:

1)are they any good?

2)what one ability should I choose (the other will always be Fly as without it it's just a big lizard not a Dragon)

3)Should I ally it in from the Mordor list or the Moria list and what troops should I have him 'bring with him'

4)This is arguable the biggest question of all WHAT COLOUR should it be, I have toyed with White, Grey, Green, Yellow, Blue and Red

5)I know this should be in the WOTR section but it seems silly posting just these questions is it any good in WOTR and ruin caster upgrade Yes or No?

1. How good are you? If you're good, they're good. If you're rubbish then unfortunately it won't work for you.
2. For safety Tough Hide. But again if you're good and confident in your skills I would take either just Fly for more models or Wyrmtongue. Fire is by far the worst.
3. What is the rest of your force? If it's orcs then Mordor to boost bow limit. If not then probably Moria Goblins. It totally depends on the rest of the force
4. ... pink?
5. Yeah. Tremor works well as you can get him into tight spots.

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

O wot r u like, scaring off new users :p He's right though, dragons are good though, they pay off their points every now and then :/ I'd go for mordor with the dragon because mordor has hornblowers, boosting the dragons courage so it won't flee as easy, and taskmasters, meaning it can get free might points and be even more deadly!

I agree with the above, including Marsbar's suggestion that BlackMist will scare you off. Also, I don't recoomendWyrmtongue, only Fly and/or Tough Hide. Also, I think it should either be Black or Ice Blue.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I'm not trying to scare anyone off... I'm just saying that if you know how to use the Dragon then he will be the best 300+ points you will ever spend. If you don't know how to use it properly then it will be a point sink. It's the same with many big heroes and monsters, they take time to learn. Once you learn you'll be destroying everyone.

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Blackmist it's Ok you didn't scare me of nearly everything has a learning curve very few units in SBG don't

What makes Wyrmtongue and Fire Breath so bad a mobile caster sound really good and releasing gouts of fire upon the enemy, need I say more

With colours and back story I'm planning on having Easterlings that follow/worship a Dragon not Sauron so I will use what ever colour the dragon is for the Easterings and Haradrim cloth so pink is out of the question but most colours are in with that in mind which colour is best

As for where to get the dragon from I think I'm going to go for Mordor because I want be able to take some Spectres I know this seems weird but I like the idea that the dragon presence is enough draw lots of 'older and fouler things than orcs' from the 'deep places of the world' to fight for him. To continue this theme I might take some
Wild Wargs when my army gets bigger

I have never played with a Dragon myself, but I have seen a lot of people saying that Wyrmtounge and Fire Breath is bad because you will need the Will to pass Courage test to keep the Dragon from running away.

Fire breath might look powerful but basically you need alot of will and while it might be more boring, tough hide is far more valuable. Wyrmtongue is okay i guess but tbh a wraith could probably do it better. Wraith and 2 mounted wraiths is a solid force...

Thats a shame I think they should change the fire breath rules (I'm not just saying that they actually might because Smaug coming out) a dragon without fire is a bit pointless they should either make in incredibly powerful but only one use per game, keep it as it is but make it free so it gives you another option to use (also give them more will) or lastly keep it the same but do something like Elrond Master of Rivendell's foresight points where you roll a D6 or 3D3 or something to determine the number of times you can use it

If i were you, i would use the dragon as a cave drake to start with. Then move on to using it as a dragon etc. That way you won't use as many points on it to start off with, incase it doesn't do too well.

As far as color goes, a yellow/golden dragon would fit well with a golden armored force from sandy southern lands...

I'm going to experiment with both Wyrmtongue and Breath Fire (when I get around to painting my Dragon). A good fire shot could be game changing as it hits everyone within 2" of the target model at Strength 10, that's a lot of models in a tightly packed shield wall with spear support. Your opponent could always spread out to minimise the damage, but if you keep your line tighter you'll be getting more models into base to base than him, rolling more dice and winning more fights. Vaporising any multi-wound models in the process would be the icing on the cake.

Dragon breath = bye bye Shield, Spear and Pike block.

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Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

The reason why people generally say that it isn't worth it is that you only get 3 shots, and you aren't even guarenteed that it will hit. In theory it sounds great, but I don't think it works as good in practice.

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"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

I would be inclined to agree, it's definitely more situational and it will be harder to engineer a situation where it will be game changing.......but with a shoot of 2 (and might) you're going to hit. You need to get your opponent to bunch his models up in order to defeat yours. He won't like it as it leaves him vunerable to the dragon. It's not easy and will require more cunning than taking Tough Hide, but I think you could have a fun tactical challenge with it.

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Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

Every shot you use takes up the all important will you need to keep the dragon on the board. If you spend 50 points on fire breath instead of tough hide you are making him easier to be shot at and thus more reliant on his will (to pass courage tests) but also encouraging him to use more will. If you want to take dragon breath, which there really isn't anything wrong with, make sure to take 2 taskmasters as well, so you can get free might and thus pass the courage tests more likely.

But as i said earlier, there is nothing wrong with dragon breath, it's just a matter of how much of a power gamer you and your friends want to be. Dragon breath is viable against opponents that would warrant it useful and thus make similair choices, but maybe not as effective against certain other players.

And a Hornblower. Of the Morgul Knight / Black Numenorean variety.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

To take fire breath you have to take fly really or you can only move 3 inches when you want to flame someone and that is LAME!!

My Dragon is black in the cracks and red plate.... i think, haven't seen him in a while.

Really? Does a Mumak need to fly? The new scenarios mean that most of the time a big monster can start in the middle of the table. Half the scenarios require models to be conveniently in close proximity and stay there in order to capture an objective or the high ground, and getting the most out of a banner requires the same thing...let's all bunch up around the dude with the flag. It's harder to get away from a non-flying monster now. If your opponent has a dragon with fire are you going to want to build a shield wall with spear support and a banner all clumped together or do a concentrated cavalry charge within 15" of something that can kill all models (including multiwound ones) within 2" of it's target on a 3+. It's evil and doesn't care about shooting into a fight. You know that the retribution is going to hurt if you form a solid battle line, so you'll either do everything you can to take the Dragon down or you'll dance around attacking piecemeal and less effectively. Either way it'll make you change your battle plan without flying or even breathing fire. Go on, charge your Dwarf Shield wall with WoMT spears into my goblin line, I'll peel back my line of spears and breath fire into the combat. It'll hurt you more than me. Spread your line out to avoid the fire and I'm getting more 2 vs 1s than you, and usually more dice to roll = more win..... then I think I'll save the Dragon's will. If it's not flying then it may be less tempted to do a heroic move, so there's more might you can use for the courage tests.

I do think fire would be much better if it counted as a thrown weapon. A dragon breathing fire on some enemies, then charging into combat with others would be so cinemaic. A mighty hero is standing in the shield wall with his warriors, facing his enemies. The Dragon swoops down breathing fire, the hero's Fate saves his life and he stands defiant as all around him are consumed in flames. The Dragon charges into the hero and they fight in single combat. Epic.

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Titans Wargames Club

http://s10.zetaboards.com/The_Titans/index/

Clearly I will just have to choose which one I want before each battle when I know who I am playing against and my army composition for example big shield wall then fire breath, if I want more troops so drop a caster to save some points Wrymtongue and if I think I'm going be heavily outnumbered then neither and tough hide normally

Also why take a hornblower of the Morgul Knight / Black Numenorean variety rather than just an Orc hornblower

Because the only vil models allowed to be hornblowers as per Warbands are Black Numenoreans, Morgul Knights and Haradrim Warriors. No other evil Warrior may take a horn, and since you're playing Mordor, there's no point allying in a Haradrim.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.