Why on earth would you take a Budget Wraith and give him 0 Might? The point of the budget Wraith is to provide 2 Might and a bit of magic (and these days also to unlock higher model limit). 0/7/x is wrong. 2/7/1 or 2/9/1 is right.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

If you have a lot of Bdget Wraiths at minimum posssible cost, with the Undying, all leading Orcs, you can have quite a horde, start giving them Mt pts and Ft pts and that's less Orcs, the only pts of the Budget Wriaths in the list is to fuel up the Undying, not to act as entities in their own right.

Of course, if you hink it's not a good idea, then fine, saves me buying more Generic Wraiths.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I do love generic wraiths, but 20 Will is enough for an entire game if you play reasonably well with Undying. All the others are there to cast a 2nd, 3rd, 4th transfix on the same hero or multi sap or multi drain courage.

The difference between 2/7/1 and 0/7/1 is 10 points. Do you really care? It's not like you're dropping numbers by 30 in a 60 model force. You'll be dropping less than 10 in 70+ model force.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Ok, thanks for the advice.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

While this is slightly the wrong thread for the question, how do you determine the value of a generic wraith eg the difference in a 2/7/1 and a 2/9/1? I have always been unclear on the matter

I bleave you add 5 points for each, but not sure

_________________
Ours is the fury!

yep, thats what it says in my MoM book

_________________
'Though my memory's fading, I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior'
-John Newton

I don't think that's what he was asking. I think the question of the value was "how do you determine how much better is a 2/9/1 wraith than a 2/7/1". If that's the case then it's simple - In grand majority of the situations you want to be casting Transfix, Sap Will or Compel on 2 dice. A 2/7/1 therefore gets 3 attempts and ends the game on 1W, while 2/9/1 gets 4 attempts - it makes a big difference in the long term. I think 2/9/1 is the most optimal, but cuts further to your numbers.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Thank you for all your advices
I've not fully understood this , Blackmist :"Shade for Goblins is effectively giving them F10 against all non-heroes. Shade for Reavers gives them a bonus on top of F10 because they start with F5": did you mean that reavers + shade is also effective against heroes?

0/7/0 wraiths : maybe effective for the courage malus ( i think it's cumulative but I'm not sure ) ?

Lastly: was thinking to use KoU on armoured horse, SL is still way better ?

_________________
He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love.He was a captain that he would follow,even under the shadow of the black wings

[quote="StewardofGondor"]I've not fully understood this , Blackmist :"Shade for Goblins is effectively giving them F10 against all non-heroes. Shade for Reavers gives them a bonus on top of F10 because they start with F5": did you mean that reavers + shade is also effective against heroes?[/qoute]
No, I meant that for goblins Shade makes their fight effectively better than enemies because if you roll a 6 and they roll a 6, you win. That's all it does. Reavers already have Fight higher than most enemies, so the bonus is on top of that. It makes no difference against heroes because a hero with F6 rolls a 6, makes it a 5 and boosts with Might to 6 anyway, regardless of fighting a goblin or a reaver.

Ringwraiths' aura is not cummulative.

SL is far better than KoU unless you're really not taking any Mordor allies. In that case you have no option but to take KoU or Beta, but horses are pointless in my opinion - 40 points more is a Fell Beast which gives a world more possibilities.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Ok I get it now you mean that reavers will also win rolling lower dices because unless you're facing elves their F value will crush everything

Yes fell beast is awesome
but I think i will use SL on foot and an extra bo'sun

However the list you posted is hardly going to be improved, it has everything. Wonder if good armies have an equivalent of reavers ( ex.: some time ago khazad guards ).

_________________
He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love.He was a captain that he would follow,even under the shadow of the black wings

I think that the all hero good force is the reaver equivalent now. If rohan had standard spears i reckon it would be a different story but sadly those spears were meant for throwing, and that's just what they'll do, and one of these days those spears will be thrown right into you.

Are armoured horses any better value than normal ones?

Only asked seeing as all Wraiths have the option for both, as well as 3 types of Fell Beast.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Usually I use armoured horses because S2 bows will need a 6 and xbows and S4 enemies a 5 to wound them

_________________
He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love.He was a captain that he would follow,even under the shadow of the black wings

Thanks BlackMist.

And on the value of armoured horse, you may as well get a felbeast instead similarly to a normal horse

Another question: how can you fit a 24 reavers fronjt line under the umbrella of 6" of the SL ?

_________________
He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love.He was a captain that he would follow,even under the shadow of the black wings

Well... With a Fell Beast your diameter is almost 15" across, so it should be enough to fit about 14 reavers in the front line, 14 orcs behind and then another 10 each on the sides of SL. If you want to spread further then you have to keep SL where most enemy archers can shoot.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Except that an armored horse is at least 35 pts cheaper than a FB, and much less prone to being killed via archery.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

A horse, armoured or not, gets killed by a lucky volley arrow (in fact armoured or not dies to a volley from an elf on 5+, so with 12 bowmen there's about 1/6 chance that it'll die in turn 1 of the volley) and it is the number one target in any game where you can afford to volley. Only a fool will lose a Fell Beast to archers, especially since you have a 15" charge range, so a maximum of 1 turn of direct shooting (15 due to compel). If you're not charging then you can always move your force up into combat and delay the FB's combat by 1 turn to catch up. The only problem of Fell Beasts are armies with multiple storm callers (and naturally they're F5 wood elf armies). But that can be outplayed.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

How do you get a 15" charge range from something that can only move 12in? Every game that I've played with a FB (with or against) in it, the FB is the target of every bow, and with a 2/3 chance of hitting the beast and with a good deal shots, you can easily kill it in one turn. If you have to rely on volleying to kill a horse, then the Nazgul should be ok. The point of using the non combat nazgul is to keep them out of combat, right? So why would you want to spend 50 pts on something that is best used in combat?

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.