We are 22 now, and have been gaming since we were around 12. He got me into it, and while I mostly stuck to the painting and a casual attitude he went full force into Lotr, warhammer and I think... He dip a bit in 40k, but didn't like it too much. Used to go to tournaments and win, all that jazz.

Anyways we played all the time, and I have only beat him a once when doing a point based army(I can beat him when we do battle companies) and it was a total flukey.

It was the first time I ever played and I was Rohan(Only infantry and archers) and he was Isengard(Uruk-warriors, Pikes, and a couple of crossbows). Simply put he was destroying me and pushed me back to where I think I only had around eight-ten models left(He outnumbered me by this point, and we usually do 300pt armies) and being my first time I was like "Screw it I am just gonna have fun." So I took my remaining models and had them charge his entire army as I got priority and they were all in range. All my models had throwing spears so I was like hey they are gonna throw them too. Every throwing spear killed an Uruk, and then I won all the battles they engaged in and made kills in at least half. It was my first and only win int his game, and one we still talk about today because of that amazing charge.

Though as I said it was a total fluke. Anytime we play now he destroys me, whether I am good or evil, or even if we play around doing good vs good or evil vs evil. When we were younger it didn't bother me as much, but now I have gotten a lot more into the hobby. I taught my fiancee, my little brothers, and even my cousins to play. Yet I still can never beat my beast friend, he just always seems to get the upper hand and really knows how to use the rules to his advantage and how best to use his units. (Understands point costs and the 'worth' of a unit a lot better then I do)

So I have lurked around these forums for a long time and finally I wanted to call out for some advice and help!

I prefer to use Rangers or Rohan, these are my favorite armies. Though I have dwarves and Elves too (And alotof orcs for an evil army, also haradrim and easterlings). I am mostly a good player but I do want to know how best to use evil.

i had similar problems with my friend. i introduced him and played him for his first battle. i went easy on him but he had an all foot rohan army so didn't do to well. i beat him, but ever since he thrashes me every time. the weird thing is is that he beats everyone in our club, even people who are good, he just beats them (even winning a 40k tourney we set up, though it was the 2cnd time he played 40k!). i think it is because, unlike me and much of my gaming group, he does not care as much about the other sides of the hobby, he refuses to paint and buys his models on ebay. this also shows in how he plays, he doesn't have a realistic army, but always uses the rules to their best, rather than having a cool looking army or one that is true to the lotr backround and story.
im not sure this has helped, but i think your friend, like mine will make an army that works, not thats practical. my friend uses proxies in battle so often because he cant afford the models to make his armies, but without proxies he never plays aswell. try making armies that take advantage of all special rules, and concentrate on the objetive of battle! the more times im defeated by my friend makes me so annoyed that my battle plan falls apart as i try to kill his hero, whilst his army controls all the objectives or flanks my army and kills them.

this turned into a rant more than i was hoping, so probably wasn't helpfull
but, i hope this helped

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"fool of a took" gandalf

I also have a friend like this. It got to the stage where we were falling out during games over petty rules so we now play 1000pts of random stuff that never gets used. Fellowship, dragons, 5 trolls etc. Stuff that is fun to use. To be honest, if you cant beat him your way, then join him. If he always uses isengard then get an elf army.

Also, a tip I learned is not to take named heroes unless they are SO worth it they are broken. So take un-named captains etc. This will allow you to take more troops which should help against being outnumbered. In 300pts you shouldnt have any named heroes (maybe 1 cheap like erkenbrand).

Finally, dont use rohan against Uruks lol. Rangers are good because they match the FV of the uruk and you can stand back and shoot him as he advances.

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12th GBHL 2013.
13th GBHL 2014
9th GBHL 2015


Mid Sussex Wargamers

The thing is he is very versatile with whatever he plays, and he does like to stick to theme armies. If it doesn't make sense for a unit to be there he won't use it (We are big lotr fans before this)

Our recently battle was, he was gondor vs me mordor and still destroyed me. Though in a 300pt army I decided to take two ringwraiths and he had Aragorn(As strider) so I think that was my mistake as I wasn't able to do anything with my units. (Also choose to not have any might...) Plus I realized we were about even in model numbers when we started which I knew was a bad idea for evil.

Though I've played Uruk-hai against dwarves, Uruk-kai against elves, Elves against Mordor, Dwarves against Easterlings... He still kills me.

Basically what I am trying to get at is how to use Rohan and Rangers effectively. What are the best tactics to use for these type of themed army? I don't believe I know how to correctly use Calvary, though I tend to be a 'ranged' player and go heavy archery and that gets me some success with rangers.

I think you should try to play larger battles, I started the game with 300 point battles as well, but there just wasn't the same kind of tactics that I find in, say, 1000 points games. If you have models enough to play all those different armies, it shouldn't be too hard to field 700 points or so.
Also, you should note that Strider isn't in any of the Gondor lists (in warbands, that is, I don't know if you play by them).

If your doing strictly themed army vs an army designed to win. You will most likely lose imho. I enjoy themed armies but you lose a lot of tactical power if you only focus on one group or one theme. I'm not saying you shouldn't run a theme, but the odds of you fighting and army that counters your are higher if you are not diverse. I also agree w/ Elessar when able try to do a higher point game, more tactics involved and it opens up options for a more diverse army. My group started doing 100 pt battles and we've progressed to doubles w/ 500pt (1000 pts per side).

Maybe I'll suggest we bump it up to 500-1000pt armies.

We play by the old SBG rules, and not the new warbands. I told him a little about that but we didn't seem to interested. The rules we go by are the ones from The One Rulebook to rule them all release. (And the supplements that went along with that.)

When it comes to heroes we are loose with which 'version' we can use. As long as it makes sense that they might be doing this. (We don't have Legolas leading Dwarven soldiers against easterlings type deal.) The reason he was strider was because we were loosely doing a what if, during the build up to the war of the ring Aragorn was assisting some rangers of ithilien/gondorian troops.

But essentially lore wise or sometimes movie wise if it makes sense for the armies then that is what we do. With some mixing at times. Like Moria can pretty much mix with Mordor fairly easily. Although we don't use an models that have magic beyond maiar, some elves, and ringwraiths. So shamans of all types we don't use. And isengard can utilize trolls, and such.

Next battle we do he is going to go Uruk-hai... Any ideas on the best tactic against Uruk-hai?

Definitely bump it up to at least 500 points. Putting major heroes like two wraiths and Aragorn into 300 points makes a game more suitable for a specific scenario than a straight up battle IMHO. If you want to play games like that, the scenarios in the journey books can be pretty useful. Otherwise, I hope you're at least using LoME, so there's a model and bow limit.

Using the original profiles, it's pretty tough to use Rohan or rangers against Uruk hai (unless it's Grey Company with no bow limit, in which case you will both be bored). The main problem is the S2 shooting, it's just as ineffective against both the shielded Uruks as the pikes. You have to get into combat with the pikes in order to boost your odds, and when that happens the higher fight (against Rohan at least) and strength, never mind that he will likely have enough shields to cover his flanks, turns the odds against you.

Talking about Rohan: Rohan does have S3 shooting in the form of throwing spears, which is great against pikes, but you have to get in close to use them and might end up in the same kind of trouble. If your friend is okay with it, you might scour around the GW site for the PDF that has the profile for Grimbold (a profile that appeared in a White Dwarf issue and is in the new books): he lets you upgrade WoR to S4 (for 1 point per warrior), which is extremely useful against Uruk hai front lines. If played right, a mix of upgraded S4 WoR with shields, and a healthy dose of normal WoR with shield and throwing spear, can help. Uruk's strength is in a strong supported front line, the consequence of which is that your friend's forces will need to bunch up or at least group into small clusters. If you broaden your lines and flank him, you may be weaker on the line but you'll have many more opportunities to shower his pikes with throwing spears, and he may have to scatter his forces to prevent being shot at...in which case...

If you're going to add cavalry, consider that the RoR profile is really most suited for skirmishing and mobile archery, until you've done whittling or see an opportune moment to charge. That Expert Rider rule is critical. Your S2 bows aren't going to be very effective, but they should be annoying enough while you have the double threat of being able to charge when he wants to break off and deal with your throwing spears. Ideally you will only charge pike models, as they can't shield and your chances of killing are doubled. Charging the front line of D6 is suicide.

One of my favourite configurations for LoME games was something like: 33% WoR w/shields (upgraded); 33% WoR w/shields, throwing spears; 33% RoR. This puts all the bows in the hands of the cavalry. To that I might add some RRG, both foot and mounted (useful for their higher Fight score), and some Sons of Eorl (higher fight, higher strength, and more attacks...can't go wrong!). If led by Grimbold and Erkenbrand, it probably still doesn't quite equal Uruk hai, but it comes pretty close.



Can't say I agree with that. Usually named heroes are worth it, especially the mid-ranged ones. They usually give you an extra Might, or some other advantage. Though if you just mean the big heroes, yes, you really can't use mega heroes unless you're playing a high-point game, or if it's a custom scenario.

+1 to whafrog
If you are Rohan vs Uraks you need to play to your advantage (horde) rather than theirs (defensive pike block)

You can draw him on with your infantry, shoot him with your cavalry and when YOU decide to let him come into close combat you can throwing spear him, wrap your cavalry around the back of him and hopefully cause a few problems by outnumbering him.

He will call you boring... but many historical generals (successful one too) use these tactics.

This is some amazing advice. Thanks a lot whafrog.

I am going to try and get a battle with him this week, it may or may not have to take place on vassal. If some I will gladly put updates on how it turns out. I always seem to forget how useful throwing spears can be, despite how great they were for my first battle.

We do use the 33% bow limit btw... Though we are making some house rules to change some of it around but we realize the game is balanced with this in mind. (That said we are playing with the idea that if a unit come with a bow already, it don't count toward the 33%, or just units like rangers or certain elf units can have bows with no limit.)

That is MADNESS!!
I would advise strongly against saying that.
You could just field 100% wood elves with bow...That would be rediculus!

Legions of Middle Earth (a book which defined the army make up rules for the One Ring Rulebook) said that there is a 33% bow limit except for Grey Company. And grey company (From the ruin of arnor book) you have to take 1 Ranger of the north or dunadain for ever 4 standard rangers.

Instead I would be stricter on the 33% bow limit. Most boxed sets come obeying this limit (with the exception of Khand riders, harad infantry, warriors of the last alliance and rangers) so what is hteir excuse?

Yep, the 33% bow limit is there for a reason, and even though GC has some configuration requirements to get 100% bows, it's still broken. RoR already have bows, so you either have to work around it (as per my suggestion above), or eat the cost and only let those posed as shooting shoot.

You'll also have better, more balanced games if you stick with the LoME model limits: 50 @ 500 points; 75 @ 1000; 100 @ 1500+

If you want to try a "broken" army, try dwarves. They have such insane defense that even if you screw up a couple turns, they'll still stick around and some of their heros are insane.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

The thing about the 33% rule is why would it make sense for a company of rangers, or elves to not -all- have bows? Though we both understand how broken the game is if you ignore this rule (Entire 300 point Elf warrior army with bows) I would just love to figure out a how to do this but not have the game break as a result.

Maybe do some house rule with shield formations or something to give the defenders an additional benefit.

IMO it will breed a boring version of the game. IF you want to play like that then sure go for it but you won't have close combat often and you will find who ever plays elves will win 9 times out of 10.

Considering that lord of the rings the film is a ton of combats and all the best scenes are combats (even if there are small shooting moments) rather than watching people have shoot offs I wonder what you are imagining when you play like that

Based on Tolkien lore you're probably right, but a game has to strive for some balance. If you want to houserule it for elves, you'd have to find some limiting factor like GC does where it requires 1 RotN per 4 RoA, along with a hero. So for elves, in addition to a captain that leads your warband, and just going by similar point costs, maybe you have to take a Sentinel per 4 wood elves, or a Stormcaller or other generic hero for every 8, and the Sentinel's/Stormcallers would have to be deployed independently. Given elves' 3+ shooting, that's probably not enough to balance it, but it might be close.

I am new to the warband rules, I have gone back and forth between trying to get the new rule books, but essentially is it you need 1 hero per 12 units?

Also to be honest(As much as we strive to be lore friendly, even so far as starting to recreate a lot of the races toward what we think Tolkien imagined) I could let go of the Elves all having bows as a race thing.

The only unit that I would really ever push to always have bows are Rangers. I mean unlike Elves which are just their race giving them these weapons, a Rangers profession and lifestyle specifically requires a bow. Or so it seems.

It might mute it a bit being that a Ranger isn't as powerful as an Elf, nor is their bow as strong. But the +3 to hit still is fairly deadly. So I could use what your suggest and say it is a generic captain or Lt. within the rangers that have to lead large groups of them.

Actually, they do all have bows, it's built into the profile, you don't buy the bows separately. It's just that you can't field an entire army of them without some balancing structure.

That's what I mean, I'd want to field an entire ranger army with bows.

Warband rules might be helpful in that regard, or perhaps just making rangers cost a little more. My buddy and I don't use the warband rules currently.

Again the next battle I do against him it will be myself as Rohan, and him as Uruk-Hai.

The talk about bows and rangers is more of a personal house rule that we have both talked about and want to find a way to do without breaking the game.

This is called Grey Company, check this thread it should answer your questions:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23627&start=20