Hi everyone

Some simple questions here, after a long hiatus from SBG me and a friend have finally kicked off our lotr careers, with a 600pt battle yesterday between the Nazgul (4 wraiths on fell beasts) and Rohan (roughly 10 riders, captain, gamling, and about 17-20 odd royal guard).

Now a number of rules problems cropped up in that battle, and these two I would really like to sort out once and for all:-

1) Where can I find the rule that says you can have no more than 1/3 of your army as bow carriers? It's something I remember from ages ago, but for the life of me cannot find in the SBG rulebook.

2) What's the deal with Warbands these days? What are they, why are they there and how do they work? I ask because my friend asked if the (pure) Nazgul on fell beast list was legal, and I honestly didn't know what to tell him... I sorta knew about warbands, but I didn't know how they worked, or how they were implemented in the game, so I simply reverted to looking at the SBG rulebook and Mordor sourcebook, and choosing the models I wanted to use (which is how I've always done it really...).

What I'd appreciate the most is page references, so I can just go to the page and read the stuff for myself, particularly with (1), but I'd greatly appreciate a fuller explanation of (2) along with a reference

Ta very much guys!

EDIT: Oh, I think it might be worth noting that I think (but don't know) that I might be using an outdated Mordor sourcebook... the 2007 one to be precise, and the 2005 LOTR SBG paper-back rulebook.

...wow... just looking at those dates makes me realise I've probably been playing this game a loooong time... I feel old now

The game has seen a lot of changes while you were gone

There are sourcebooks which contain the profiles of units from a LOTR faction and the new warband rules (Mordor, Fallen Realms, Kingdoms of Men and Free Peoples).

With the release of the Hobbit they've also made quite some changes to the game so you'll need a new rulebook, either the one in the starterset or the hardcover. Both feature all the rules but only the hardcover has all the profiles and pointvalues of the Hobbit models so far in them, the one in the starter has only profiles of the models in the set (and no point values).

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Operation future in full swing.

Thanks for your reply

- First off, can you give me the basic gist of what warbands are and how they work in the SBG? For example, is that pure Nazgul on fell beast list I mentioned legal?

- Second, So which book has the most up to date rules for SBG now then? My understanding of the hobbit was that it was just another game GW was doing, alongside Fantasy, 40k, LOTR SBG and LOTR WoTR, not a rules overhaul for all the LOTR stuff... or is it an addition to SBG and WoTR? In that they're adding in new profiles and models/units to use in SBG and WoTR, and the rules of those 2 game systems still apply yes?

- Thirdly, if I were to update myself to the newest rules, presumably I'd need the new Mordor sourcebook, but what else would I need? Looking on GW's webpage I can't find the LOTR SBG rulebook any more... but what I can see is the WoTR rulebook, and WoTR Battlehosts... and I've no idea what's what... is SBG even around anymore?

- Lastly, can I get some info on that 1/3 bow rule please? Is it there at all? Where is it etc?



Thanks very much.

Warbands is basicly (without excposing to much of the rules) that your hero to warrior ratio must be at least 1:12 (or is it eleven?). Your Nazgul list was legal. The Hobbit is basicly a new edition of lotr SBG. The hobbit rule book has basicly replaced the old ORB. The 1/3 bow rule is still pretty much the same as it has always been, but a lot of armies are excepted from it in various ways.

The Hobbit SBG and LOTR SBG is the same game and models from both trilogies can be used in the same army. But of course they've changed the name to The Hobbit SBG now

Warband rules are for armybuilding purposes, for example: an army now consists of warbands which are up to twelve warriors led by a hero. (heroes can be taken without warband, so your Nazgul list is legit)

You need the new rulebook that has been released with the Hobbit, as I said there are two versions:
- Hardcover with a lot of background info and profiles and point costs of the models from the first Hobbit film
- Mini-rulebook that comes with the starterset, contains all the rules but only profiles of the models in the set and no point costs or profiles of any other models.

All warband rules are present in the new rulebook but you might also wanna pick up the newer Mordor sourcebook since you're using an outdated one and some profiles might be missing and/or changed.

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Operation future in full swing.

Welcome back!

Warbands are: one hero leading up to 12 troops. Since Nazgul are all heroes, and you had no warriors, your list was legal. Not sure about your opponent though, LoME rules let you get away with fewer heroes.

The most up to date SBG rule book is the new Hobbit book. All the basic mechanics are the same, with a few tweaks, they are fully discussed in several threads in they News forum. One tweak you'll be interested in is the new monster powers, it makes your fell beasts much more effective. One tweak your friend will be interested in is that ROR no longer count towards the bow limit (they all have bows, and now they can all use them). One tweak your friend *won't* be interested in is that bows now have a movement penalty to shooting (in addition to the 1/2 movement rule).

There are five new profile books, each has the same first few pages of intro material, which is where the 33% bow limit is described (it used to be described in the LoME book). There are also 6 new generic scenarios which most people view as vast improvements over the LoME scenarios.

And once you get all those, you'll want to download the latest FAQs, that's where things like ROR's new bow rule are.

WotR hasn't been updated, but might be for the third movie for the Battle of the Five Armies. Hope that helps!

Edit: I see some else answered, but I spent too long typing this on my iPad to give up on it...

Thanks very much for your help guys - I'll certainly keep my eyes peeled for a discounted Hobbit rulebook in the near future.

One last thing, still on the topic of warbands - I understand that it has to be a hero:warrior ratio of 1:12 roughly, and that my Nazgul list is legit, but I was just wondering as to why that is...

My current guess is that because in the Mordor sourcebook that I've got, there are several "armies" towards the end of the book: E.g. Minas Morgul, Barad Dur, Cirith Ungol and the Nazgul, all of which have lists of separate troops you can take for them, as well as lists of which forces they can ally with. Because the Nazgul have their own section as an "army" in which they are the only choices, I'm assuming that makes it legal to have them as an army in their own right? And hence in that one case legal to not abide by the warband ratio yes?

If you guys can answer that question then all my questions are answered!

Thanks again.

From what I've read, it's to stop ridiculously large low value mass armies of low cost warrior by forcing groups of 12 to be lead by more expensive heroes.

The all nazgul army will be legal because each hero is its own warband effectively, just without troops!

Hope that is helpful!

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It's because they are all heroes, so it doesn't matter what list they come from. You could have a legit army of Witch King, Mahud King, Burdur, and a Shade.

Edit: maybe what isn't clarified is you don't have to have any troops in your war band. The definition of a warband is a hero with 0-12 troops. There are some heroes (like Rangers of the North) that are classed as Independent, meaning they can't lead any troops, but they are their own warband. With the new scenarios and deployment rules, sometimes having a Independent or two is handy...

Ahhhh, thanks very much everyone

- Hell, what I might do now then is field the fellowship too as and when I fancy it