You probably should double-check with your opponent, as the others have said, but it does say in the Khazad-Dum book that Torozul is a spear. While the model can be seen with a regular axe on his belt, it is clearly Torozul which is his signature/special weapon in his hands.

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I personally wouldn't be too opposed to him using it as a spear, but if the writers intended him to not be able to use the spear special rules that would make sense. Like with Gil-galad for example, he is certainly not going to cower behind a normal soldier and stab with Aegolas. So if I were house ruling it, Mardin could support as the "Foe Spear" in a vault warden pair, or to support Durin, anything else detracts from what I believe is the intended 'feel' of the game as Mardin would not be found in the rear ranks but in the front lines.

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I can't believe there is even a debate about this, just look in his hands :/ You must have a really obnoxious opponent who would insist otherwise.

The issue is that his spear is v.powerful vs trolls. So if he can support someone else who could win the fight and keep himself safe then his spear is worth more in the new rules.

Quite right. The Mardin model is clearly armed with a Foe Spear, and he is described as a Vault Warden (who fight with foe spears) and is designed to support Durin (who came out at the same time the vault wardens were released). Importantly the rules do not state that the foe spear does not count as a spear for game purposes as with Gil Galad.

I have just read the changes to the spear rules which state that a spear armed hero can use his own fight value and strength for the dice he contributes to the fight, and also that he can use his might to effect this!

This appears tailor made for Mardin, as when he and the Vault wardens came out, bar the Balrog trolls were pretty much the only thing likely to make any serious impact upon them from the Moria army list. His bonus against trolls would appear to stand.

Ultimately, Bilbo has said the key point (which I made earlier and came onto this thread to confirm) - Gil-galad (in the very same book) has Aeglos. It VERY specifically states that it cannot be used as a spear. Yet nowehere does it say that it IS a spear. Torozul doesn't state that it cannot be used as a spear.

Under the Hobbit rules, the weapon type is determined by what weapon the model has. Therefore, Mardin can use the axe on his belt (with its usual special strike, but no bonus against trolls and doesn't support) OR he can use Torozul, the spear, which gives him bonuses against trolls and can be used to support.

EDIT: Meant to say it IS in the rules, the only problem is that you have to use three other rules to know it, instead of it being abundantly clear. We can only hope that in the next FAQ/errata update they change the word "weapon" for "spear". Nice, quick, simple, effective.

Hashut hit the donkey on the head as far as I am concerned.

One does one's best Basically, it's WYSIWYG by the new rules for weapon type and it's not exclusively stated it's NOT a spear, which Aeglos says it doesn't count as.

It could be INFINITELY clearer by simply saying it counts as a spear, but GW dislike clarity (I know, I worked for them ) - the only reason, in this case, it couldn't be used as a spear, is if it said so.






Which it doesn't.