I believe some of the actors used fake weapons for some scenes, but I know viggo used the real metal (heavy!!) sword for all his scenes.

And yes, Lurtz should be no match for aragorn. He only had the advantage because aragorn had already fought and run for a while, and also had to act quickly to save boromir. In a straight up duel, aragorn would beat lurtz handily. (As is shown very clearly once they actually get down to swordplay.)

All that to say I vote F5.

Yep, Lurtz shouldn't be stronger than he already is. The fact he's sort of toe-to-toe with Aragorn is just a cinematic cliche of building tension. We know the hero won't die BUT we can't just have him beat everyone with ease. I think it was pretty clear he wasn't actually a better fighter.

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The only thing I think Lurtz needs is an extra wound. I mean he did take several hits and pretty much refused to die. He wasn't above average in terms of fighting or shooting.

I certainly don't think he should be F6 but it would be nice to see him with 3 Wounds, Attacks and Fate and maybe a special rule for about 85 points. That way he's a fair bit stronger than the other uruk captains but Aragorn etc. should still be able to take him down. Isengard needs a stronger leader for games between 300-700 points where Saruman's still not viable but 2 wound/1 Fate captains aren't good enough.

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I agree that F6 is too much but I also think that Lurtz needs something to give him advantage over the other named Uruk Hai Captains. Ugluck gets headtaker, Vrasku gets a two shot 3+ crossbow, Mahur get an extra attack and movement whereas Lurtz gets a S2 bow. Not really a fair trade in my eyes. It probably stems from the fact that he is an older character but they gave Shagrat an update and they've had chances to change him when they released the Fallen Realms book etc.

To make him a decent choice I think that first thing they should do is allow him to actually benefit from the extra defense that his shield would give him if he didn't have his bow. Even something simple like that gives him an edge because then S3 isn't wounding him on 5's any more so he's a bit more survivable against Elf bows and most good warriors in combat. Then after that the other things I'd add would be an extra attack then an extra wound.

If he was given all of those abilitys and priced at 75 or 80 points then I'd think that he'd be a great Isengard general for smaller games and it would give him a decent boost without making him an equal of Aragorn and the like. Even just keeping him at his current points value and allowing him the +1 D would make him a good choice.

Whilst this is true bear in mind that Mauhur also loses a Might point compared to the other 3 and I think the cheap, 3 Might heroes are one of Isengard's great strengths.

I also think Ugluk's head-taker rule, whilst lovely and fluffy is very situational, I don't play with a lot of orcs in my Isengard army and it's rare I'd be keen to sacrifice an Uruk-hai in the final stages when numbers are key, particularly when you've (hopefully) got Fury and Saruman's Stand fast to keep everyone in check. As it's at the start of the turn, you also need to have moved a model into base contact with Ugluk in the previous turn to anticipate needing to use the rule, which prevents him from calling a heroic combat, can be lost if he loses a Fight and gets knocked back AND stops the sacrificial model fighting in the previous turn. All in all it's a good rule on paper but one that I find is rarely used, if it was 'Any model within 3"' or 'At any point during Ugluk's Move' it would be much more useful.



I agree that that's all he needs to make him really worthwhile but I also still feel he's a good choice. A lot of people (not on this thread though) often say he's overpriced, which he isn't. He's 50 for the Captain + 5 for the bow + 5 for the Might. He essentially gets the ability to shield for free, not as good as Vrasku or even Ugluk's special rule maybe but occasionally handy none the less. It's also very useful to have a hero with Might and a bow, I've done some very cheap wounds on heroes with Lurtz's bow over the years turning a 5 to wound into a 6 at early points in the game.

My preference is as follows:

Vrasku
Lurtz
Ugluk
Mauhur

But the debate goes on

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changed somethings
btw dr grant the shield isn´t entirely free, random captains got heavy armour unlike lurtz, so those 5 pts are payed already, just a diferent short of defence which is more usefulll than captains however.

Reduced to defence 5 (as rule says, armour and shield should give him defence 6, although since he carry bow, he cannot clain that +1 defence by carrying it) unless you give me a reason to get that defence up.
1 special rule for him
1 special rule for the army, paying for it

Although im considering if his bow shouldn´t be an orc bow but with strength 3, makes no diference vs D6 but makes diference vs D5 needed 5+ instead of 6s.

Technically Lurtz isn't broken, he just pays 5 points for an extra might. But I do think he should be slightly better than that as he is after all the alpha uruk.

I would keep it simple, just make him F5/3+ and D6 to compensate for the shield he already has. In the film he does place 3 shots in Boromir's chest (sorry for spoilers!)

A shooting special rule would have been great.

Allowing the defense bonus for the shield is a common gripe and one that is often and easily fixed in house rules. It alone does make a difference and makes him a little more survivable.

In addition to that any ONE of the following could be a themed and not over-the-top option to added and may not even require a point adjustment.

1. Reroll if he fails to Wound with his bow.
2. +1 to wound with his bow or increase Str of bow by 1
3. Larger StandFast range for Uruk Hai
4. +1 Courage for all Uruk Hai within 6"
5. Act like a Banner for Uruk Hai within 6"

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changed some stuff

Everytime I field lurtz when boromir is present the mighty boromir dies, 60% of 100points well spent if you ask me.
At one point i swear he used to be S4 D6 in the rotk era games I must say the easiest fix would be for him to just have D6

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I'd keep it simple and say +1 D and a S3 bow.

It seems everybody has a special rule these days. I'm not a fan of that, special characters stop being special when everybody is.

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