Archer, spearman, shieldwall

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Fri May 09, 2014 4:33 pm

Dr Grant wrote:

You can do it but it requires a really pedantic and cheesy reading of the rules.

You can indeed only shoot over one friend in base to base contact but the way people work it (that Feanor tried to explain) is that the archer (third rank) shoots over the shoulder of the spearman (2nd rank) but because of the way you have positioned your models the archer's line of sight is not obscured by the front rank. Faenor's diagram explains it pretty well. The archers do indeed have a very narrow arc of fire (straight forward) but that's normally not a problem when the whole enemy army is advancing towards you.

I will say that it's an incredibly cheesy tactic that tends to breed grumpiness during games as whether or not they can see can be quite subjective and is entirely based on exactly where you position your head behind the model.

It's certainly not something my gaming group do and thankfully is not a common tactic at tournaments. I've only ever come up against someone trying to do it once and I must admit I really didn't like it. To my mind it's people taking advantage of the true line-of-sight rule.

Also, anyone who lies their models down for some sort of tactical advantage gets a giant eye-roll from me :roll:

I can see why it poses a problem. However, tactics are tactics. If someone tried to spin their troops during the shoot phase I'd call poo poo on their action, but if they have the foresight to make their troops stand sideways (or lay down) in order to gain a line of sight good on them. They've clearly understood sun tzu's proverb of don't attack unless you have a surplus of strength. And that to me, is a clear surplus of strength. I'm not saying it is fair, frankly it's exploiting the rules, but it is a viable RAW tactic.

halauas · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2014 7:05 am

i find this tactic (shields, then spearmen, then archers) no that effective at all as a conclusion.Not only it will slow your game down as everyone says (making it less fun) but also once the enemy has reached you your bows are useless unless you spend 2-3 turns to re-position them in a good place to shoot again.
Its better to either equip your spearmen with bows and shoot and then fight in melee once the enemy has reached you OR
have your archers always sideways of your main formation so they can move around and shoot at enemies supports while front line is busy fighting your front line

jdizzy001 · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2014 2:31 pm

Yeah, I can see that. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying, i'm going to start playing this way. I was just curious as to how that would even work.

halauas · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2014 11:34 pm

never meant to offend anyone even when using this tactic (its a tactic after all) just wanted to point out that its not even that effective in my opinion

hithero · **Posted:** Sun May 11, 2014 9:34 am

Firing from a third rank is not really being cheesy and if anything, practical and historically accurate to do so. In 'real life' there is nothing to stop the front ranks from kneeling to allow rear ranks to overshoot, this can't be done in Hobbit so laying down or turning the model accomplishes the same thing. You could also overcome the problem by not having all models in B2B and have them spread out along the ranks a little which will give a greater field of fire.

Of course, you could always have rear ranks of archers on horses for uninterrupted LOS and protect your horses from being shot down at the same time.

pokyha · **Posted:** Wed May 14, 2014 6:30 am

The Horses Idea sounds cool

Valadorn · **Posted:** Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:31 am

jdizzy001 wrote:

I read on an individual's website regarding lotr sbg tactics.(...)

Late answer but could you give me the link? ^^

Dior · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:27 pm

One more little point overlooked by everyone here is ...
your shield wall does not have to be base to base (B2B as some like to show it)

Your shield wall using your field of influence (or whatever it is called? ) means you can space those front warriors apart.

So the spear being directly behind means the archer in the third rank can get a very obvious firing corridor ... even more so than the good photos from Mr Grant show.

Yes the tactic is possible.
Yes it is legal.
No it is not a bad thing or pulling the wool over.
I don't think anyone should have issues with this as it can be done perfectly legally and possible.

Major_Tom · **Joined:** Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:58 am **Posts:** 58

They can, right up until someone engages them and then they lose their 1” control range so anyone can pass through it – if you leave a big enough gap to shoot through you might also have left enough of a gap for someone to get more than one model in b2b so could be fighting at a disadvantage (if they have spear support it might be 4v2)

Kind of feels like this tactic is a bit limited in SBG in my opinion as it’s a skirmish level game, if someone wants to block up Like a Warhammer fantasy regiment , unless they are in a chokepoint or are anchored against some terrain they may very well just get outflanked in quick order

Archer, spearman, shieldwall

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