For example when you're at a tournament and you sit down against a new opponent what basic units always makes you just think 'oh no not these guys again'.

And elaborate why a bit. I'm curious.

For me high Elves are one. Dwarves too with whole D7 armies.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Uruk bereserkers. Back in the day before everyone was armed with a weapon they weren't so bad because they only had a two handed weapon but now...

Bow elves, the amount of time my Mordor force would be suppressed by those little buggers sitting back as far as deployment would allow just to snipe off all my expensive monsters - Cave drake I'm looking at you. It has meant taking the shadow lord more often which is a costly investment just to nerf them.

Last game (with a friend), my elves were able to kill... 0 uruks !
When I wasn't failing to hit, I rolled a 4 when needing a 5, or a 5 when needing a 6... Such a waste of points!
Moreover, I took Galadriel for fun, to negate the uruks bowfire... then the Uruk showed up, with 0 bow and 0 crossbow...

Maybe you'll be one day as lucky as my friend was that day, and you won't loose a single warrior before the lines clash

You know I dont fear them that much but they definitely are much better with that rule. Same with Khazads. Theyre a pain.

But they do have killing power and theyre tough to shoot down. Lets put it this way. Its never fun seeing them walkin my way haha.



Thats really surprising. For me whenever I have bows they never ever seem to kill monsters and rarely even wound them....
Especially weird are my elves. Ive had games where theyre just sniping the life out of the enemy and other games theyre useless. But I did play against one person for around a year who used Thranduil, Leggo, Tauriel, and plenty of bows. Often Mirkwood rangers. Was a huge pain.



It happens.

I just played a game with Uruk Hai Isengard.
I had I believe 14-15 x bows plus Vraskus amazing snipe ability.

What ended up happening was I kept rolling 5's and 6's to hit and 4's and lower to wound.

We had a tri battle and I think I managed the entire game to kill 2 morannon orcs or maybe 3, put a wound on a troll, and kill around 4 dwarves.

Keep in mind this was at 800 points in a long pitched battle where I shot for probably most of the game.

It just is up to the dice sometimes.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Elves for me. Their high fight value and the ability to shoot targets on a 3+ is very annoying.

Anything that is cheapish that is S4 and D6, i.e. Blackshields or morannons. Apart from being borderline overpowered in that they kill easily and are hard to kill, they are so much better than the normal orcs and goblins so that it would be unwise to take the latter unless going solely for theme.

I absolutely agree.

Other than theme and using cost heavy heroes you might as well up all troops to them.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I guess this^^ is one of the reasons why the game is going to be rebalanced in the next couple of years.

I find wood elves with spears annoying. Not discouraging or difficult, but just annoying. Due to their fight value, they can stall units worth twice their points and even some heroes.
I also have a fiery hate of hobbits. I had it since I read Lord of the rings for the first time, and it passed from the book to the game. The shoot phase feels like is neverending, they can be upgraded to S3 and have access to axes, which means I am going against a S4 to S6 horde which suffers little to no drawback from piercing strikes. Plus, how can a hobbit sheriff, who has never even read of battles have the same fight value of a warrior of minas tirith?

Thats very true....thats a problem with a warrior of minas tirith though as well.

I took Hobbits to the DCHL's Nova event last year. It was so long and annoying to plan and shoot, even I WAS discouraged. Im thinking of taking 0 bows this year. It sucks sometimes trying to charge and take wounds, but other times not so bad.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I guess I'll follow the trend. For the longest time, my main opponent, and any other time I play against them, elves, particularly high elves, really annoy and discourage me, as soon as I see that I'm playing elves, I don't feel I can win. Even though I mostly play Isengard, with my F4, S4, D5 and D6 uruk-hai warriors, crossbows, berserkers, everything. My friend often defends them by saying "They even out having F5 by only being S3". However, having someone constantly role 5's and 6's to win the duel gives them a much higher chance to wound with S3 and suppresses my S4. Lately, I've been trying to incorporate more crossbows into my lists to help force my opponent's hand. However, playing elves, all attempts to use range weapons seem to be use range weapons seem to be useless, since they hit on 3's sometimes even 2's! They decimate my army before I can even reach them. Finally, the heroes. Isengard combat heroes are usually S5, so they lose to F6 elven heroes. They also have an abundance of attacks, might, will, spellcasting abilities, and manage to fit a couple of these heroes into a standard 500pt list while matching my number of models. Needless to say, I can't find a way to beat them, they seem to have no glaring weaknesses. It feels hopeless for me to play against them.

Wow that's great interesting. Personally I enjoy having Isengard Against Elves though I will say I've played wood elves more.

Honestly....I don't see many disadvantages you have.
1-you have Saruman and if they're playing high Elves they have no caster who can compete. Right there you shut down Gil Galad and others magic. Knock em off their horses etc.
2-if you don't use magic you have numbers. And yes.....I can't believe you didn't max crossbows earlier. At 750 pts without Saruman I can fit 16 x bows plus Vrasku 2.
You definitely outshoot any high elf army.
3-you should win the defense vs fight value battle. You SHOULD have more attacks or at least wound more easily. They need 6s a lot on you.

If you'd like to tell me your usual army list vs his and some tactics I can help.
I played mordor and Isengard Against Elven fight 5-6 and their bows and magic for nearly a year.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Hobbit-era Elves. They're just broken, especially the ridiculous heroes. I run Fighting Uruk-hai a lot, and even they don't stand up to the little pests.

Also, anyone bringing non-Fellowship or non-fluffy lists (Eowyn & Merry/Beregond & Pippin type lists) who brings Hobbits to the table is just plain wrong.

The old dwarf warriors. I play mostly Moria and Isengard, and here we rarely go over 500pts so Saruman is too much of an investment. Usuallt i find myself trying to smash a shield wall while Gimli, Balin or a King's Champ slowly eat my army.