Ok this list is still in progress, so i have 180pts left over to use, but not sure what to spend it on (possibly a cave drake.)

Warband 1:
Betrayer
12 Watchers with bows

Warband 2: (supports Warband 1)
Golden King -
9 Serpent Guard (supports the middle of the Watchers unit, benefiting from the betrayers poisons rule.)
3 Abrakian Guard (helps support the flanks.)

Warband 3: Shade (again supports the whole lot above and found to be quite nasty indeed.)

Warband 4:
Haradrim King on Horse
6 Serpent Riders
6 Harradrim Raiders with bows (go their own seperate way and harass.)

Warband 5:
1 Castellan with mogul blade (helps tie up those uber characters like aragon whilst refusing to die, mogul blade is only in to help tackle monsters like trolls etc that have no fate.)

Still got 180pts left over but at a slight loss at where to spend it. Know I am low on numbers (And defence) but have a solid middle block with some quick units to harass lines as see fit. Would like to keep the ghost/desert theme as much as possible - any suggestions?

Ok, no point taking a lone shade, make it lead some orcs. Spend your last few points on another Harad warband

Hmm, you really only have three warbands, and you won't get to set up all your guys in a nice bunch like you want to that often. I would drop the castellan and use the extra points for a hasharin and as many spearmen as you can get. This gives you a third foot warband that can support either of the others, and more numbers.

Also, the poison re-roll thing is not really worth it, I forget the math, but a different named wraith may be better. (maybe the shadow lord to cut down on archery losses from your low defence?)

Oh yes, if you are taking the betrayer, he needs to be on a mount of some sort, and on the front line, keeping him with your archers is never a very beneficial decision. For this army i would probably recommend the Dwimmerwaik as your wraith.

I also agree with the avenger, drop the castellan to give the shade some orcs to lead, and make another warband of harad warriors.

agree, three warbands is very small, more often then not do get to deploy them all together as i wish. Standard game seems to be 1-3 deploy within 12" of the front, 4-6 deploy anywhere on your side of the board - so just deploy the whole lot in the front even when get the option to deploy further back. Unless been doing this wrong.



Castellans have never been popular online, but in all the games i have used them they have always been high performers, bit of a shame can't squeeze two in. I would highly rate 2 castellans with blades much, much higher then a single hasharin for the points. A fourth decent warband is pretty much what i need, not sure spearmen are going to do anything for me though? with deployment how i understand it, it is pretty straightforward to get all my guys together, leaving the spearmen to support? can you even support other spearmen? (serpent guard) not going to be able to keep up with the cav and then it is only if the watchers are unsupported by the better serpent guard that these guys will see any use. If i was completly worried about not being able to set-up in an obtimal way could always split the warbands so that warband 1 is 6 watchers with bow + 5 serpent guard + 1 AB, then warband 2 as 6 watchers with bow + 4 serpent guard +2 AB that way never deployed unsupported.



Agree the poison thing is hardly ever relevent and does not make any real impact to the game. A hasharin used to lead the watchers warband but for the extra points wondering if the betrayer is just a better option mainly for a couple of spells, better courage to stop them all legging it, will of evil (then the golden kings gold of course) and the poison thing is last on that list but with 21 guys helped out by it, willing to give it a go and see how it works. If not the Hasharin might well find his way back in (or possibly even Suladan)

The biggest issue with other wraiths is simply that they don't lead harad warriors and unsure whether you can use the stand fast rule of a hero from another faction. So would need a cheap harad hero if was going to take a different wraith instead. Was hoping the cav could distract enemy archers long enough for my main line to advance.



- why does he need to be on a mount? surely that makes him easier to be shot at?
- oh and the archers/serpent guard ARE the front line the bows are merely there to keep my options open against aggressive non-shooty armies. for 12 points totally worth it, considering watchers have 2 attacks standard and then supported by a poisoned spear, in range of a shade and a banner.
- I do like the dwimmerwaik he is a very good wraith, lacks might but would fit this force very well, would need to buy a cheap hero to lead the watchers as the dwimmerwaik cant do it. Doubt it is a good idea to have double wraith?



sensible suggestion but just doesn't fit the theme, ghosts + desert raiders so no orks, uruks or mumakil.

DO need to increase the model count though, so ummm will think some more.

you can. dwimmerlaik can provide stand fast to harad etc.

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cheers for that.

What about this newer list?

Warband 1: Harad Cheiften with bow
12 Watchers with bows

Warband 2: (backs up above warband)
Golden King
9 Serpent Guard
3 Abrakian Guard

Warband 3:
Harradrim King on horse with war spear
6 Serpent riders
6 Harradrim raiders with bows

Warband 4:
Taskmaster
6 Abrakian guard
5 Serpent guard
1 Harradrim warrior with war horn.

Warband 5: Dwimmerwaik
Warband 6: Shade

got the 4th warband in, the taskamster might help with retaining might and the dwimmerwaik should help in messing up my opponents store. The war horn can also increase the courage of everyone which is nice. This comes to exactly 1000pts.

I like the new list a lot better. You still want to deploy in a group around the shade, but if you get a scenario where that isn't possible (There's one or two where you roll to see where and when you come on iirc) you should still be doing okay. You've got a small cav contingent to get objectives, and a decent group of archers as well as a strong fighting line.

@Pox: Well mounting your wraiths means that they

A: Can get where they need to much easier.
B: Are higher up, and thus better vision with which to cast spells.
C: They are much better fighters, obviously they shouldn't be doing much fighting, but if they do, having up to 4 dice to wound as opposed to 1 is a great bargain for only 10-15 points. This is even better for the betrayer, who gets to re-roll those 4 dice to wound.

Also if you are deploying a wraith on his own, a horse is even more important for incase enemies can gank him early in the game.

THIS is something i have overlooked greatly. hmmm now to find myself 10 points.

I have no experiance on this myself, but BM has said many times that you might as well take a fellbeast rather than a horse. With a horse you still can't really kill anything, but with a fellbest you can. If you can find the extra 15 points for a horse, you can find the extra 50 (or whatever it is) for a fellbeast.

Well, I'm really just making suggestions based on how much people are willing to spend. Also in my own experience i've generally found that an armoured horse is enough to increase speed and get a kill or two if you are picky with your fights.